Perch or roach weather

[The Flying Tench]

There's full cloud in the sky, and maybe a bit of mist as well. Perfect perch weather! But isn't it perfect roach weather as well? For people who want to catch roach and perch how do you decide which to go for, assuming you'll want to give yourself an equal chance for both over the year. Is it simply a case of accepting they both like the same weather, or are there slight differences?

[Anderoo]

I don't know why, and I wonder if others have noticed the same thing, but when I'm fishing for roach I always seem to do better when it's windy. I always curse the wind as it plays havoc with the quivertip, but then on calm days I never do as well. With perch it seems to be the opposite, with calm days generally better.

 

Roach also don't seem to mind coloured water as much as perch, so if it's murky (and especially if the river is still rising following rain) I'll fish for roach rather than perch.

 

Air pressure is another difference, I find that roach like the low pressure systems (as per most cyprinids) whereas perch are happy to feed in high pressure.

 

But on the days when either seems a reasonable target, it just comes down to which one I'd rather see in the landing net

[The Flying Tench]

I don't know why, and I wonder if others have noticed the same thing, but when I'm fishing for roach I always seem to do better when it's windy. I always curse the wind as it plays havoc with the quivertip, but then on calm days I never do as well. With perch it seems to be the opposite, with calm days generally better.

 

Roach also don't seem to mind coloured water as much as perch, so if it's murky (and especially if the river is still rising following rain) I'll fish for roach rather than perch.

 

Air pressure is another difference, I find that roach like the low pressure systems (as per most cyprinids) whereas perch are happy to feed in high pressure.

 

But on the days when either seems a reasonable target, it just comes down to which one I'd rather see in the landing net

 

That's really interesting. It's no surprise that perch prefer the water clear and the pressure high when chasing small fish, so perhaps that feeding mood also encourages them to pick up the occasional lobworm.

[Steve Burke]

I don't know why, and I wonder if others have noticed the same thing, but when I'm fishing for roach I always seem to do better when it's windy. I always curse the wind as it plays havoc with the quivertip, but then on calm days I never do as well. With perch it seems to be the opposite, with calm days generally better.

 

Roach also don't seem to mind coloured water as much as perch, so if it's murky (and especially if the river is still rising following rain) I'll fish for roach rather than perch.

 

Air pressure is another difference, I find that roach like the low pressure systems (as per most cyprinids) whereas perch are happy to feed in high pressure.

 

But on the days when either seems a reasonable target, it just comes down to which one I'd rather see in the landing net

 

I think there are 2 factors here: current speed and light intensity.

 

As a rule perch on my venues don't like a fast current nor a strong undertow, although this isn't set in stone. Roach are much happier then. Indeed, roach seem to love undertows, whilst perch are often found where the undertow begins to peter out.

 

Both like low light and here coloured water isn't the only factor as you have to take depth, weather and time of day into account. In other words it's the amount of underwater light that's important. Presumably roach feel safer from predators in coloured water.

 

On the other hand predatory perch have better eyesight than any coarse fish other than zander. Contrary to what some of the old books say, they feed best in coloured water when they have the greatest advantage over their poorer-sighted prey. However perch don't seem to like really muddy water, perhaps because they require more oxygen than roach and the suspended solids clog their gills? Unlike roach though, perch very seldom feed after dark.

 

On my local rivers coloured water is good for perch, even better for roach. If you can find the right current speed you can catch perch even in very coloured water, although I'd expect to do better with roach then.

 

On shallow stillwaters I find low light very much better for perch, often catching specimens in just 2 foot of water at dusk. I hope to be fishing a deep estate lake for perch this winter and it'll be interesting to see what conditions are best. I expect that deeper water will be more productive, at least during the day.

 

As for atmospheric pressure my experience is slightly different to Anderoo's, perhaps because we fish different venues. I find low pressure better for both roach and perch. However it may not be the pressure itself that matters but what effect it has on the underwater light and the current.

 

Additionally, in winter especially there's 2 types of high pressure weather depending on the humidity and whether there's warmer or colder air higher up. In sunny anticyclones I'd not expect roach to feed so well during the day and would prefer to fish at dusk and into darkness. With perch I'd look for deep and therefore darker water during the day, or perhaps under trees. At dusk though I'd expect any feeding perch to be in shallow water.

 

High pressure and cloud in winter often brings "anticyclonic gloom". I seldom do as well with any species then, with the possible exception of pike. I'm not sure of the reason why, but I suspect that the dissolved oxygen level may be too low.

 

In fact, I find pike fishing better in high, or more accurately rising pressure, almost all the time. So in winter when predator fishing I often choose the species according to the pressure - pike if it's rising, perch if it's falling.

 

To finish, I'd again repeat that I find it's not the weather itself that's important but rather its effect on the water and in turn on the fish.

[Renrag39]

Perch every time, though I'm biased by using mainly lures year round. That said, when the wind drops I'm going to have to break out the 3wt and expand my species list.

Apparently Roach are a cunning adversary on the fly...

[Mark Wintle]

I fished the upper Stour yesterday with stick float and maggots. Both roach and perch are prolific here and I expected plenty of bites. The river had a tinge and good flow. What I actually had was plenty of small chub, one of 2lbs odd, loads of dace to 5oz and just two roach and no perch. Whether a different approach might have worked for the roach (bread punch and groundbait?) or perch (chopped worm) I don't know but I saw another report on another stretch further up where another angler also found the chub feeding yesterday and no roach. I suppose if it was predictable it would be boring...

[John Weddup]

I think there are 2 factors here: current speed and light intensity.

 

As a rule perch on my venues don't like a fast current nor a strong undertow, although this isn't set in stone. Roach are much happier then. Indeed, roach seem to love undertows, whilst perch are often found where the undertow begins to peter out.

 

Both like low light and here coloured water isn't the only factor as you have to take depth, weather and time of day into account. In other words it's the amount of underwater light that's important. Presumably roach feel safer from predators in coloured water.

 

On the other hand predatory perch have better eyesight than any coarse fish other than zander. Contrary to what some of the old books say, they feed best in coloured water when they have the greatest advantage over their poorer-sighted prey. However perch don't seem to like really muddy water, perhaps because they require more oxygen than roach and the suspended solids clog their gills? Unlike roach though, perch very seldom feed after dark.

 

On my local rivers coloured water is good for perch, even better for roach. If you can find the right current speed you can catch perch even in very coloured water, although I'd expect to do better with roach then.

 

On shallow stillwaters I find low light very much better for perch, often catching specimens in just 2 foot of water at dusk. I hope to be fishing a deep estate lake for perch this winter and it'll be interesting to see what conditions are best. I expect that deeper water will be more productive, at least during the day.

 

As for atmospheric pressure my experience is slightly different to Anderoo's, perhaps because we fish different venues. I find low pressure better for both roach and perch. However it may not be the pressure itself that matters but what effect it has on the underwater light and the current.

 

Additionally, in winter especially there's 2 types of high pressure weather depending on the humidity and whether there's warmer or colder air higher up. In sunny anticyclones I'd not expect roach to feed so well during the day and would prefer to fish at dusk and into darkness. With perch I'd look for deep and therefore darker water during the day, or perhaps under trees. At dusk though I'd expect any feeding perch to be in shallow water.

 

High pressure and cloud in winter often brings "anticyclonic gloom". I seldom do as well with any species then, with the possible exception of pike. I'm not sure of the reason why, but I suspect that the dissolved oxygen level may be too low.

 

In fact, I find pike fishing better in high, or more accurately rising pressure, almost all the time. So in winter when predator fishing I often choose the species according to the pressure - pike if it's rising, perch if it's falling.

 

To finish, I'd again repeat that I find it's not the weather itself that's important but rather its effect on the water and in turn on the fish.

 

 

 

Thankyou Steve a most interesting read

 

John

[Steve Burke]

In the chapter "Making Sense of Perch" in "The Book of the Perch" I wrote that to find feeding perch use the initials PLOT. These stood for pH, light, oxygen and temperature. At that time I'd be following some research on pH and thought it might be a major factor. I no longer think so.

 

In fact I was a clot, for the initials should have been just that - CLOT. The C stands for current. This is obviously important in a river, and something that we all take so much for granted that I failed to include it.

 

However what I didn't realise way back in 1989 when I wrote those words that current is also important on so-called stillwaters. I'm referring of course to undertow, and my later experiences show just how important it is. As I wrote earlier in this topic, feeding perch seem to like where the undertow begins to peter out.

 

In other words it's similar to their preference in running water where they seem to like being "just off the pace". You can of course catch perch in the main stream, you can catch them in slack water. But on my local waters they prefer not to have to fight the current for long, although they'll do so if it's worth them expending the energy to get a meal. Neither do they seem to feed that often in totally slack water, although they'll rest there. You can however induce a take there, and this is perhaps most likely when they've just arrived or just about to leave such a position. Perch on my rivers also seem to prefer to feed over a firm bottom, something that you're not likely to find in slacks.

 

Of the 4 factors though I still feel that light is the most important of all, especially on stillwaters. You need to take current, oxygen and temperature into account as well, and in extremes they can even override light.

 

If Peter and I ever get round to doing a second edition of "The Book of the Perch" I'll certainly change the chapter. I'll also possibly rewrite it for my own perch book. I still hope that will see the light of day but firstly poor health, becoming carers for Peggy's mother for a while, then umpteen moves meant "Perch and the Perchfisher" had to be put on the back burner for a while. Now we've almost finished renovating our cottage it's something I hope to restart soon.

[rob.imk2]

Coincidentally I had a conversation with my brother today he wants to go Roach fishing tomorrow as we had our first frost last night he actually thinks that the frost brings the fish on the feed in the ponds we fish

[The Flying Tench]

Coincidentally I had a conversation with my brother today he wants to go Roach fishing tomorrow as we had our first frost last night he actually thinks that the frost brings the fish on the feed in the ponds we fish

Interesting - do let us know how you get on!