Question for Phone or Newt

[corydoras]

MUSKOGEE, Okla. (AP) — A 17-year-old from Muskogee has been sentenced to attend church for 10 years as part of his probation for a manslaughter conviction.

 

Is this constitutional? It looks like a flagrant breach of the 1^st Amendment to me.

Edited November 19, 2012 by corydoras

[Phone]

Cory,

 

You've made a common mistake. You think Oklahoma is in America.

 

Phone

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll read the article. It may be he "agreed" as part of a plea bargin to stay out of jail. 17 may be the age of consent in OK.

 

Edit: Yep - looks like a plea deal among fellow christians.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Phone

[corydoras]

[corydoras]

Seriously though Phone, this must be a breach of First Amendmment, or would count as a "cruel or unusual" punishment?

[Phone]

Cory,

 

Manslaughter (murder) is not necessarily a federal crime. In the United States, the principle of dual sovereignty applies to murder. If murder is committed within the borders of a state, that state has jurisdiction (in some cases federal government has exclusive jurisdiction- but that doesn't apply here).

 

You are trying to mix apples and oranges. A persons "civil rights" (is a federal "right") can, I guess in Oklahoma, be traded for freedom of another kind. That would first be up to the State (OK) then the Supreme Court it the sentence wasn't agreeable with both the defendant and the prosecution (the prosecution IS the state)

 

IMO, and I don't know. I doubt the state of OK could enforce this penalty without some sort of violation of "seperation of religion". If OK trys to enforce it rather than a self emposed enforcement by the "guy" it doesn't stand a snowballs chance in 'ell of being legal. Outsiders would step in - in fear of a "legal" precedents being established. Of course, the suspended imposition of the original sentence would then take affect. The killer guy would go to jail.

 

My guess is that the "enforcer" is the dead guys dad (something like that would work in Muskogee) although in Muskogee it could well be the Baptist preacher.

 

Listen to the words from the song Just an Okie from Muskogee they ring pretty true.

 

Phone

 

(Just FYI it can't be an American Indian on either side. That would be a Federal case if the killer or the dead guy were an Indian.)

 

 

Cory,

 

I mostly take this line of reasoning from my deceased wife's experiences. She was a Municipal Judge for 30 odd years. Often, she would suspend imposition of sentence since it was a town of 1,200 like this. "Billy Bob, your dog dug up Mrs. Smiths prize tomatos. YOU have that dog "kilt" and don't get another dam dog, even a Chihuahua Puppy, as long as you live next door to Mrs. Smith or the next day you'll go to jail for a year." Seemed to work for her?? I have no clue the statute of limitations - but neither did Billy Bob.

 

Phone

Edited November 19, 2012 by Phone

[Newt]

I imagine if that part of the punishment were challenged it might well be overturned or the judge required to mandate some non-secular form of ongoing counseling.

 

Such a sentencing requirement would be unheard of for places like New York or California but in the bible belt, I'm not really surprised at hearing it and especially since the youngster is apparently a regular church goer.