Grrr......

[Nugg]

Elton

Be very carefull over this. I can tell your angry but don't go off half cocked. Sure we would all like to know more, but we don't know the contents of any correspondence between you and the offending persons, my advice to you is to seek legal advice, and use the proper channels, the threat of such an action may bring the desired result but do it on the say so of a solicitor. There is deflamation to be considered also.

[Newt]

Nugg - I'm getting a little confused here.

 

My understanding is that UK law is similar to US law in this area ('cause I think we stole it from you). Defamation is similar to libel, slander, etc. in that the statement must be False before you even need to consider if it is also damaging. Also, I think defamation is more when you slag an individual rather than a company.

 

So while it might shame him, Elton certainly couldn't sue me if I were to say or write "Elton likes Evos". He has written enough here and on other sites to confirm this. Therefore, not false so no matter how shameful or harmful to his reputation, the statement could not be actionable.

 

Now if I were to state publically (note the if which might protect me here) that "Elton owns an Evo" without knowing this to be a fact, I'd possibly be at risk. It might depend on if he really did or not even though by his own admission he does have one.

 

This thread joins lots of others I see on the UK forums where folks seem to worry about legal action for writing a verifiable fact - fearing it might be considered libelous or (more likely for a forum and an individual) defamatory.

 

I just plain don't understand.

 

[ 22. December 2002, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: Newt ]

[Alan Fawcett]

Thats cos you're a redneck (i never realised how easy it is to confuse yanks till i got on the net)

[Jim Roper]

One of the defences to an action for libel is that the allegedly offending statement was TRUE!!

 

If Elton is sure that everything he states is true then there is no problem in putting them in print.

 

Quite often there are some things that might be added that might cause embarrasment. EG someone might have been over their overdraft limit at the time and might not want their trading position exposed.

 

If you are sure of your position then going public is sometimes the only way to get things sorted out, especially with officialdom, but beware of retaliation from other directions.

 

I exposed one local council department in the press and was immediately prosecuted by a different department on an un-related issue.

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.searchlineuk.co.uk/FishList.htm

[Nugg]

Newt

I bring your attention to Eltons opening line, "I am in dispute" in my book if there is a dispute it means that there is a difference of opinion, therefore the other party must have put forward some sort of defence as to the reason Elton thinks he is owed this money, and I don't think it a correct solution to ask advice on the forum. I still say seek legal advice on the matter, after alls said and done it doesn't effect anyone else but Elton in the long run, and I personally would rather he was safe than sorry. We all might have an opinion on which way to go, but I think that legal advice should be sought before doing as he suggested he might, then if that advice is that he is not in breach of anything that may leave him open to any retribution, then go ahead, and I would be very interested to find out what and who is talking about.

[chris parker]

These are my personal thoughts on your Post

 

Libel : A false publication that damages a person's character, to expose to public hatred, contempt or ridicule and the act of presenting such material to the public

 

The key here is a FALSE publication. If the publication is limited to fact which can be proved then in my opinion there is no problem.

 

ie: In response to an advert in a fishing magazine which stated ' suitable for casting up to 220gms as far as you are physically able' I bought a reel from 'so and so's', an internet company on 22 12 2002 for which I obtained a recipt. The reel was guaranteed for 12 months from the date of purchase subject to a fair wear and tear proviso. When I first used the reel casting 125gms it fell apart. I returned it to the company who have refused to replace it or refund the purchase cost as they have explained in writing that I must have tried to cast too far with it.

 

In this example you would be stating facts which you could prove and not stating opinions, you are leaving it up to the reader to make up their own mind and the statement of fact would not be liabellous. Also as the goods were not of merchantable value and not fit for the purpose for which they were intended you would be entitled to recompense

 

Another thought, if you purchased using a credit card you may be covered and be able to claim from the Card company, most of the time getting the card company involved can lead to a resolution.

[Nugg]

chris parker:

These are my personal thoughts on your Post

 

(1) I returned it to the company who have refused to replace it or refund the purchase cost as they have explained in writing that I must have tried to cast too far with it.

 

(2) Also as the goods were not of merchantable value and not fit for the purpose for which they were intended you would be entitled to recompense

(1)Here we have a dispute a difference of opinion.

 

(2)If the dispute cannot be resolved between the two parties, then it would be up to a court to decide that the goods were not of mechantable quality. Up till that point it is only your opinion that they were not.

Would it still be safe to go public before then. I don't think so.

 

[ 23. December 2002, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: Nugg ]

[Adz]

It matters not one iota whether something is a fact/true or not, when it comes to libel, slander or anything else in a court of law.

 

The only thing that matters is what you can PROVE to be a factual or true statement.

 

Interestingly, offering an opinion isn't considered libel in either the USA or UK - providing you are prepared to testify that it is your genuinely held opinion ;-)

 

Cheers all,

[Elton]

The company that I'm referring to are at:

 

http://www.tonemakers.co.uk

 

Their telephone number is 0870 746 1285 - I've found that this redirects to a mobile and the 'real' number is quoted by the answerphone when the box is full, although I haven't bothered to write it down yet.

 

The guy that I have dealt with is a Paul Squirrell.

 

I paid them £379 pounds back in October to build a ring tone affiliate site. Check out their website - it looks good. Quick build time and, with the package I went for at the time, "can be customised, if required, with the addition of your own banner scheme."

 

I'm not going into great detail here, but let's just say that I have numerous emails here asking when the site was going to be completed. Those of you who visited may remember that it had something like 'System Ad' plastered all over it, where the banner adverts might have been going to be placed. We'll never know.

 

They also failed to register a domain name for me, which was also part of the package, despite numerous requests.

 

Eventually, after many, many weeks, I'd had enough and asked for a refund. In my opinion, the site wasn't built and, since it looked like it never would, I thought it best to cut my losses.

 

However, when the refund eventually came through, it was minus a £60 "admin charge". I have charged them nothing for the time that I've spent chasing up their pathetic little operation in order to get what I paid for, yet they see fit to screw me for £60.

 

I'm not going to let the matter lie. They aren't that far from me - although their registered address is in London, the Directors are located in Newport, Saffron Walden, Essex. I have the addresses from Company House here.

 

As far as I'm concerned, they failed to deliver a product that I paid for in good faith. Considering the time scale shown in their advertisement, I was extremely patient with them and wasted a lot of my own precious time, at a time when I should have been concentrating on my own business.

 

If anyone were to ask me whether they should spend money with such a company, I would strongly suggest that they looked elsewhere. I have never felt so 'robbed' of money in my life. Even the BBC provide something for your money

 

Elton

[Guest NickInTheNorth]

Elton

 

Have you got any "proper" paperwork from them or is it all web based?

 

If all web then print any relevant pages asap, it may be the only proof you have of the contract they offer.

 

Good luck, beat the b******s