Trace material for Zander

[Dales]

OK you know me I am always up for a row.

 

But lets start with knowing what hook arrangement we are talking about.

 

John

 

 

I was thinking about single hooks 6, 8 or 10 to Quicksilver or similar with a small chunk of fish or sliver of flesh. Apparently its a very popular method on a number of canals, sometimes fished with a feeder of liquidized and mashed fish. The thinking being that you are unlikely to catch Pike and it's apparently a very selective method, its generally excepted that if you did get a Pike it would bite through the braid with ease but you would only be leaving a smallish single.

 

Fishing this method with wire, I have never had a Pike and so willing to accept that others who claim never or very rarely to get Pike are being honest.

[JV44]

Years ago I had a Autumn/Winter after chub with small chunks of sardine/macky and a few were on the same game ,in fact it was watching one of these chaps catching on it that led me to try anyways lots of small chunks being deposited as bait to bring the chub to one area and did lead to a few bite offs .....more we trained the pike to look for small chunks of fish though .

hasn`t Bury got a strange rule about singles only or even braid for the Zeds???.

The thing is many fish worm in bunches or popped up on waters and this leads to as many bite offs as any other bait on a single ,think things have to be ttried and if a silly number of bite offs then you have your answer me thinks

[John Weddup]

I would look at this from a totally different view point than fish safety.

 

Yes I would be happy occasionally leaving a size 6/8 in a fish but if it happened regularly would start to feel uncomfortable with it.

 

However zander have very sharp teeth which can cut through fluoro very easily if they come into contact with it. They of course have many less teeth than pike which reduces the risk of contact.

 

Presentation with small chunks might be helped using fluoro or braid but generally I, and other who fish with me, don't feel that zander are wire shy when using live or deadbaits.

 

The worse thing for me would be to get a very good zander close to the net and that final head fling that they do results in a line break and the zed swimming away never to know how big she was.

 

John

[Anderoo]

Steve's final line sums it up nicely for me.

 

Just saw John's response, which I have to disagree with. Zander do not bite through flouro, except perhaps if it's of a very low BS.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Anderoo

[Anderoo]

It's been quite along time since I fished for zander with baits, but I never felt like wire was a problem. In fact, given the choice now of thin and supple wire or flourocarbon for legering lives or deads, I'd still go for the wire, even if pike were no threat. I'm not sure what advantage flouro would provide in this situation.

 

This was on the fens though, and the fish were not pressured. At places like Bury Hill where the fish are under some pressure and it sounds like the successful anglers are now scaling down to present small chunks of fish on single hooks, maybe a switch from wire (if it was allowed) might make a difference.

 

Lure fishing is different again, and I firmly believe that flouro means more hits. However, as Steve says, if you're being bitten off by pike all the time, a switch to thin and supple wire is the obvious course of action.

 

I would say though that, on some waters, if you're getting hits from loads of pike you're probably fishing in the wrong areas anyway. So even if pike are present, it doesn't necesssarily mean they are a problem. If on some waters they are, use wire.

 

It's not rocket science is it, it just needs a little thought beyond 'always use wire because pike exist'.

 

(As several here have said before, the vast majority of pike I've been bitten off by have come when legering bits of plastic corn when tench/bream fishing, so if you want to take that rule to its logical conclusion...)

 

PS as you know in the last few weeks I've had half a dozen days at the reservoir, using a flouro leader. In that time I've had a total of 145 zander, 2 perch, and 1 pike. I've been bitten off 0 times. It's quite hard to get bitten off less times than that, so forcing me to use wire would just reduce the number of zander caught.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Anderoo

[John Weddup]

.

 

Just saw John's response, which I have to disagree with. Zander do not bite through flouro, except perhaps if it's of a very low BS.

 

 

A very interesting debate was had on the pike and predator forum about fluoro. Strange they have a very different view.

 

Maybe catching smallish zeds on lures or jigs etc from the reservoirs you are fishing they don't get the lure in their mouths far enough .

 

Fluoro appears to be the in thing with some anglers with predators.

 

John

[Anderoo]

It's not just small fish that get caught by jigging. Have a look at some of the very big zeds caught from the Severn and Grafham (up to 20lb+), and a bit further afield the even bigger ones caught in Holland and Germany (up to 30lb+). All on flouro, and the trace material is often in contact with teeth. Zander's teeth are not the same as pike's and do not act on line in the same way.

 

I'm not surprised P&P have a different view though!

 

If flouro is the 'in' thing, it's probably because some UK anglers have learned a thing or two from the guys on the continent, who are way further down certain roads than we are, and have already done all the hard work. I think there's a mindset in the UK that we know best and nothing should change. Zander are a relatively new species to the UK and flouro is a relatively new material, so it's all still settling. Things move forward by learning from others and experimenting yourself - if I had found that flouro was not an appropriate material for some methods of zander fishing, I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time with it.

 

Flouro not always the best choice of material, but sometimes it is

[Anderoo]

 

Skip to 13.45. It's not at all uncommon for the whole jig to be inhaled.

[John Weddup]

I agree a lot of old myths exist in fishing and some times need challenging.

 

Having witnessed first hand some of our European anglers fish handling and welfare I am not sure I would take notice of their findings that highly.

 

There was an article in total coarse fishing at the beginning of the year that advocated the use of fluoro for zander. It was obviously slated on the P.P. but the writer was quoted as saying he only occasionally got bitten off.

 

I Tried, with no success, to put the case for fluoro but so many top predator anglers including some very prolific ones convinced me otherwise.

 

I guess we will all do as we think fit in the end.

 

It seems also that many predators die after being caught espescially the ones from very deep water that maybe it doesn't matter anyway. Certainly many on the fens die depending on who catches them and how they want to cook them.!!!

 

Maybe as they are still on the invasive species list we should kill them all anyway.

 

John

Edited October 14, 2013 by John Weddup

[Dales]

I think Anderoo's reservoir sessions for Zander show very well that "wire is not always a must" and his results with Pike tally with what I have heard from plenty who do the same sort of fishing. I think there is a block/hurdle what ever that some, well actually most in the Pike world can just not get past. All other predator anglers are supposed to accept and follow their golden rule use wire for everything.

 

Lure angling abroad is miles ahead of the UK and watching the advert with Dick Fosbury doing his high jump reminds me that some one had to do it first. As others have mentioned if you are getting bitten off then you need to do something about it, but the whole must use wire is something that does drive me a little potty. One of the best methods for Pike in a river near me is to trott a chub float with a worm. I even put a trace on when I want to catch Pike but if after Perch or Chub I leave the trace off. The only difference in the actual fishing is in my mind, I am after different target fish. Float fishing lobs for Pike is a very popular method in one Essex pit as it out fishes deads, so should those after the Perch also use wire?

 

The same scenario exists with Chub anglers who as Steve mentioned have been catching them on small fish pieces for years and on waters with Zeds seem to pick them up aswell. So should Chub anglers need to start using wire as Pike may be educated to pick up chunks? Pike on many well fished waters now see boilies, corn, pellet as food sources with the inevitable bite offs that go with that but we always seem to expect other predator anglers to change tactics just in case of Pike even if the states do not justify it.

 

There are lots of scenarios where wire may well be the best choice but there are some when it is not always the only choice and others where it really is not ideal. For my money it is not the only choice and on some venues not needed as many canal anglers will let you know. Zander get lumped together with Pike and to be honest other then eating fish there is very little similarity and because of this association it is almost manadatory to use "Pike Tactics" in all things Zander.

 

Unfortunatly the ludite stance of wire for everything just means that those who think otherwise just practice their dark arts in secret.