Bass Management Plan

[Stoaty]

do you think there is room for a big increace in larger bass close inshore and still have the same amounts of small bass come on each year as there is at the moment. or will the bigger fish move further off so they won't have to compete.

I can't speak for your area Wurzel. The 'new' generations of large 5lb+ bass that we have here, do not seem to move out deep. They seem to spend most of the year around the MLWS line. Too far out for the beach angler and too close in for the charter boats who seem to feel the need to take their crews out of sight of land. We have had a couple of 8lb'ers and a 9lb 2oz this year. My best was a skinny 6 this year, but many 4's and 5s about. They only come on livebait nothing else works at all well.

 

It could be that the old favorite areas like the Kentish Knock could be heaving but with so many bass local here there is no need to run any distance for them.

 

Try fishing bread for mullet at Gillingham pier!!

 

My berth is there Leon. The first mullet marks on the mud this year was just 3 weeks ago!! that's about 6 months late. I have seen just one this year. Have you noticed a decline?

[Jaffa]

Leon, just a late night skim of the posts, but I have not seen a serious answer to what effect protecting bass, in the midst of other stocks in trouble, and seeming environmental change, will mean to other species, or even any sense that it has even been considered.

 

Having lived through the same "nature will find its own balance" answers with the seal cull issue decades ago, and now seeing the results I am far from convinced.

 

You attempt to convince wurzel to get onboard by promising wealth to him, but not those that may follow; yet another closed, licence to print money (think we have enough fat cats already ) imho

 

Let me get this right? licences to commercials will only go to those with a track record over several years? Even if the bass numbers explode, and their range is extended all the way around the UK (into areas you and your mates may not have much idea about or have put much thought into the effects of ) .

 

The impression i get is that there are no brakes on this plan.?

[Ian Burrett]

Hi Jaffa

 

Chris

 

What is the alternative?

 

What would you do if you had the whip and could make any changes you saw that would improve the situation for both the commercial and angling sector.

 

It would be nice to here your views

[Leon Roskilly]

It seems to me that people are starting to take positions on the BMP, not because the have taken the time to read and fully understand the document, but because they have picked up snippets of information. Taken largely out of context.

 

I suggest now would be a good time for commentators to read, re-read the plan and articles at http://ukbass.com/bassmanagementplan/index.html

 

Remembering that the BMP is a proposal to DEFRA and contains a range of measures aimed at attaining certain objectives, and that the complete range of measures are not all necessary to attain those objectives.

 

More of a mix and match selection that DEFRA and CEFAS can work with, bearing in mind the social and economic impacts as well as the biology.

 

The forthcoming consultation on the MLS is only the start, other aspects of the proposals are currently being considered and it is expected that further consultations will take place on other measures early next year.

 

Hopefully, many of the questions now being asked will be answered by reading the BMP in full, and understanding the detail.

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited November 4, 2005 by Leon Roskilly

[Leon Roskilly]

The impression i get is that there are no brakes on this plan.?

 

 

The BMP is a proposal put forward by BASS to increase the size and availability of bass to anglers primarily, and to commercial fishermen.

 

The plan is being scrutinised by DEFRA and CEFAS.

 

CEFAS have studied the proposals and have advised DEFRA on the science and the wider implications of the BASS proposals.

 

DEFRA have considered issues of implementation and enforcement of the various measures that will be needed to deliver aspects of the plan, and proposals based on the BMP will be put forward by DEFRA for public consultation.

 

The BMP is far from being a plan cut and dried for implementation.

 

If you have any problem with the forthcoming DEFRA proposals, then you will have the opportunity to discuss them with DEFRA during the consultation period.

 

DEFRA will then weigh all the advice it has recieved, together with all of the various submissions made during the consultation period and make the necessary orders to implement what is finally decided.

 

 

 

I'm still looking for the consultation that said that commercial and 'hobby' fishermen could start using monofilament nets in unlimited quantities close inshore around our coasts, or that boats could increase their catching capabilities by using pair trawling, or many other plans and innovations that have increased pressure on stocks over the years.

 

Can you point me in the right direction please?

 

Or is it only plans that aim to reduce pressure on a stock that need to go through all of this?

 

Tight Lines - leon

[clockwork angler]

Was there a consultation on the monofilament enabling byelaws ?

 

I agree with Leon , this is a good time to read the BMP or to re-read it , there is a danger of "chinese whispers" being applied to the BMP

[Bob Jerunkel]

You attempt to convince wurzel to get onboard by promising wealth to him, but not those that may follow; yet another closed, licence to print money (think we have enough fat cats already ) imho

 

No one is attempting to get wurzle onboard with anything.

I doubt whether any angler give a XXXX if wurzle or any other commercial fisherman is onboard or not.

It would be nice if they chose to embrace the benefits that there will be for them and to look on the positive side for once instead of just opposing every single change just because they dont like change.

As has been pointed out the BMP is a plan written by anglers for anglers.

It has been done following promises from the government to give us certain species as purely recreational starting with bass.

There are benefits there for commercial fishermen too because when the plan was written commercial fishermen were taken into account.

[Leon Roskilly]

The first mullet marks on the mud this year was just 3 weeks ago!! that's about 6 months late. I have seen just one this year. Have you noticed a decline?

 

 

Hi Stoaty,

 

To be honest, I've hardly managed any mullet trips this year and on those occasions that I have been out I've been mostly experimenting with new venues.

 

Most of my past mullet have come out in the areas close into the towns, but I'd like some better surroundings than what's available at Sun Pier (and company!)

 

A friend of mine has been struggling a bit this year, but still managed a couple of decent fish a little short of 7lb, and the lad in my local tackle shop who only started this year has been doing very well fishing down the wall in the Towns.

 

I went after bass and whiting in the Swale a few weeks back and saw plenty of mullet (just my luck to have the wrong tackle along!), ended the day with one small schoolie.

 

When I first moved to Medway some 20 years ago, I was more into coarse fishing, and when the wait for June 16th became too tiresome, in May, I'd take my perch fishing tackle down to Motney Hill and target school bass. Catching plentiful small bass from the Medway has always been a reliable option and I really haven't noticed a noticeable increase of late, fishing the rollers at Sharp's Green and towards Motney Hill.

 

When I've been targeting other species at Chatham, I haven't been pestered by small bass, but have had one or two fish in the 2-3lb range.

 

But I've noticed that the odd schoolie is caught now from Sun Pier, but only the odd one amongst the plentiful number of pout and whiting.

 

To my mind, it is the incredible number of small pouting and pin whiting that is the major change to catches in the Medway in recent years, probably as a result of fewer big bass and cod to keep their numbers down, and encouraging the seals to multiply.

 

This year has seen some really good sole catches as well.

 

What does worry me is the number of reports that I get particularly of chinese netting the river further down.

 

There is nothing illegal about their activities (unless reports of them fishing in the nursery area and taking undersized fish are true), so long as their catch is consumed by themselves and their community with no money changing hands (which I understand is often the case, despite tales of themselling their catch in their restuarants).

 

Unfortunately the Kent & Essex Sea Fisheries Committee area doesn't encompass the River Medway.

 

Commercial fishing and enforcement is controlled under an ancient charter by the Oyster and Fishery Guild of Freemen (Shane Hale who owns the wetfish shop in Rainham High Street is the chamberlain of the guild). Membership is around 25 (each of whom have to have served an apprenticeship before admittance to the Guild).

 

Unfortunately the 'poachers' tend to use fast small craft, and it's difficult for the guild members to catch them in their small trawlers!

 

Another great worry that I have is the amount of urban development mooted along the river.

 

Mud and Muddy creeks kind of spoil the view, and what developers want to do is to block and infill the creeks and pile drive metal banks into the river and backfill, so that instead of biologically active 'soft' banks, where fry and the creatures at the bottom of the rivers food chain can thrive, we end up with urban development that stops right at the low tide line and no transitional habitat between the steel banks and the salt water.

 

 

The power stations are another source of considerable fish mortality in the river

 

"A further study of the mortality of juvenile bass at Kingsnorth power station in the Medway Estuary in 1987 concluded that the mortality of first year bass during peak impingement in autumn and winter was around 15% of the population in the immediate vicinity of the power station"

 

eek! How many power stations do we now have in the Medway?

 

As far as the biology of the river is concerned, this is constantly monitored be the EA and by CEFAS who regularly sample trawl to see what's going on, and you might have spotted an EA vessel with 'Pollution Control' emblazoned on its side, roaming the river, sampling the water quality.

 

 

 

They are particularly interested in the river's population of lamprey which needs high quality water to survive.

 

Regarding the shads, a while ago I was corresponding with the EA trying to convince them to put in a fish pass at Allington, to enable the migratory fish to more easily pass up into the higher reaches (you've probably noticed the significant increase in sea trout leaping about in the Medway in the last several years).

 

But it's the shad that I'm most interested in. There appears to be a significant population of both species doing reasonably well in the Medway now, which need to be encouraged. That in turn will increase the pressure to maintain good biological quality of the Medway.

 

But as I mentioned, the Medway's status is that of a 'recovering' river. And as it gets better, those species that can better tolerate poor water quality will diminish, as species that need good water quality thrive, and there will be many knock on changes from that.

 

So, it's fairly predictable that the contents of our catches, and what our catches feed upon, are changing, and will continue to change significantly.

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited November 4, 2005 by Leon Roskilly

[Stoaty]

To be honest, I've hardly managed any mullet trips this year and on those occasions that I have been out I've been mostly experimenting with new venues.

To be honest Leon Mullet is my bogie species. I have only ever caught a handful and all by accident. I never target them, but I like seeing them around. They are fine looking fish I just have some kind of perverted respect for them that makes me leave them alone. Perhaps I am scared I can't catch one if I tried.

 

When I've been targeting other species at Chatham, I haven't been pestered by small bass, but have had one or two fish in the 2-3lb range.

 

I suppose we see things differently a 2lb bass is a small one to me. If you go upto Snodland the small bass are 3 inches long and I am told great sport on a pole set up for dace.

 

To my mind, it is the incredible number of small pouting and pin whiting that is the major change to catches in the Medway in recent years, probably as a result of fewer big bass and cod to keep their numbers down, and encouraging the seals to multiply.

there are a lot of small whiting but arn't they skinny? I think the seals are a bit of a red herring. We have had seals in the river particularily in Sharfleet Creek. We had a seal and her pup there for about 2 weeks and one weekend there were 6 of them there. But in all honestly I think that for 45 weeks of the year there are no seals in the river.

 

What does worry me is the number of reports that I get particularly of chinese netting the river further down.

 

There is nothing illegal about their activities (unless reports of them fishing in the nursery area and taking undersized fish are true), so long as their catch is consumed by themselves and their community with no money changing hands (which I understand is often the case, despite tales of themselling their catch in their restuarants).

 

I think they may have stopped their activities. I haven't seen anyone netting and I am out on the river most weekends. There have been problems with the chinese and eastern european communities down at Dover, taking undersized fish. They seem to think that all wildlife is fair game for the table. It's the way they have been brought up. We need signs in chinese and bulgarian at these venues.

 

(unless reports of them fishing in the nursery area and taking undersized fish are true)

I think the Anglers who fish the Medway deserve a pat on the back. I have never seen anyone fishing in a nursery area and they are not marked on the marine charts.

 

There is a story been floating about for a few years perhaps a Medway myth that when we had moorings in Damhead creek, in the nursery area, a chap fishing off his own boat caught a 20lb'r (bass that is).

 

Another great worry that I have is the amount of urban development mooted along the river.

 

Mud and Muddy creeks kind of spoil the view, and what developers want to do is to block and infill the creeks and pile drive metal banks into the river and backfill, so that instead of biologically active 'soft' banks, where fry and the creatures at the bottom of the rivers food chain can thrive, we end up with urban development that stops right at the low tide line and no transitional habitat between the steel banks and the salt water.

 

I agree with you on this one. These kinds of development will also alter the flow of the river. Banks that hold fish may disappear and new ones may appear. Tide direction can change. The rapid silting up of the drawdock at Gillingham (the pier) is mostly down to the development of Gillingham Marina right out into the river.

 

The power stations are another source of considerable fish mortality in the river

 

"A further study of the mortality of juvenile bass at Kingsnorth power station in the Medway Estuary in 1987 concluded that the mortality of first year bass during peak impingement in autumn and winter was around 15% of the population in the immediate vicinity of the power station"

 

eek! How many power stations do we now have in the Medway?

I would love to have some solid accurate statistics on this subject. A friend used to work at Kingsnorth Power Station and cleaning the screens was his job. He told me that tons of fish were killed every day. I don't know if this is still true or if measures to reduce fish mortality (and crabs and the odd LOBSTER) have been taken.

 

We now have the small power station in the paper mill at Snodland which pumps warm water into an onsite lagoon that was draining into the river last time I was there (a few weeks ago). We have Kingsnorth and next to it the new Damhead Creek gas powered station. Next to Thamesport is the Medway Power Station which is also gas powered and of course Grain Power Station that is in some kind of mothballed status. Because we are running out of gas a gas terminal has been built to take gas ships just downstream of Thamesport.

 

(you've probably noticed the significant increase in sea trout leaping about in the Medway in the last several years)

 

I usually see them outside close in to Minster Beach. I thought for many years they were bass till a friend foul hooked one.

 

But it's the shad that I'm most interested in. There appears to be a significant population of both species doing reasonably well in the Medway now,

 

It's a bit ironic but I believe that the Shads are mainy in areas that people can't fish. Not nursery areas but commercial areas like Thamesport. Some of the man made steel walls and piles used in the contruction of commercial docks and jettys are exactly the areas that they seem to congregate around.

[sam-cox]

A veritable hive of infomation.