and tomorrow............

[Alan Stubbs]

Exactly how would these figures have been generated when EU nationals (From Poland, the Czech Republic, latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) arn't subject to immigration control or restrictions on whether they can work or claim benefits ?

 

I suspect that it was politically expedient to suggest that huge numbers would be migrating and then give an estimation of "actual" numbers that is much lower than the original projection. Makes the government look good without addressing the issue or actually doing anything.

 

 

Ken, as Davy said, the government understated the influx of Eastern Eurpoean EEC nationals by a factor of 10. They did it knowingly (so as not to have to deal with a lot of anti-immigration protest, I suspect), but worst of all, they resisted all attempts under Charles Clark to divulge the real extent. Thank God the man has gone. he was worse than either Blunket, Straw or Michael Howard - and they all plumbed the depths.

 

One of the selling points of New Labour was that they were proven good managers from their backgrounds in local government. I think for reasons of accuracy, they should have deleted the words 'proven' and 'good'.

 

I don't have any party allegiances, but as sure as hell, this rabble are not effective.

[Sportsman]

True enough, but being pedantic (What, me? ), the Jews weren't originally invited here. They came in after the Norman Conquest, and were generally disliked because 1) They were another set of foreigners for the locals to cope with (even though the Anglo-Saxons had only been the locals for about 600 years) and 2) They were mainly moneylenders as they were forbidden to enter the professions and filled a gap forbidden to Christians by the Catholic Church. And nobody likes money lenders.

 

I think we were quite welcoming to the French Huguenots who fled here following the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre in 1572, but then they were Protestants and we hated Catholics at the time, so that was ok...

 

As a descendant of the French huguenot weavers who settled in Essex / Suffolk because of the wool industry I have always been rather supportive of refugees and migrant workers in general.

Maybe it explains my natural antipathy toward the French as well

Edited May 16, 2006 by Sportsman

[zziplexboy]

As a descendant of the French huguenot weavers who settled in Essex / Suffolk because of the wool industry I have always been rather supportive of refugees and migrant workers in general.

Maybe it explains my natural antipathy toward the French as well

 

At the mention of the French my well known humanitarian views have been known to head for the door fast, but hey it a traditional sport to hate them and their hoighty toity unwashed ways.....isn't it??

[Sportsman]

At the mention of the French my well known humanitarian views have been known to head for the door fast, but hey it a traditional sport to hate them and their hoighty toity unwashed ways.....isn't it??

 

Please say you were just joking, otherwise you will get dogs abuse for being a hypocrite

[Gillies]

I normally keep away from these kinds of politcal threads ... but up here in the Western Isles of Scotland we have had a an influx of Polish and Latvians - they are basically cheap labour, working on fishing boats, and working in fish processing factories (doing the jobs that cant be filled .. and doing it cheaper)..... they are earning a living, happy ... cant take that away from them. Something good offered to them in their eyes, and they have taken it up.

 

I dont know how it is in other parts of the UK, they seem to be becoming intergrated here - with a number of the females ones been in the family way to locals (so hard to type that sentence and not make fun or some kind of comment ). There are some bad eggs among them though, such as the Pole who stole my sisters mobile phone, ones whom stole money from people at our club, and the one who threatened the bar steward at our club cause he wouldnt give him a job.

 

So many forgein workers coming into the country and getting so many handouts from the government --- and you and I have to pay for it all ... ouch.

 

Due to the nature of my work, my main gripe just now is outsourcing - I lost my job two years ago, as the faltering idiot company I worked for started outsourcing to India, the quality of the work they delivered was terrible to say the least (I work in computer software) and would almost have to rehash almost all the work they delivered - more a hinderance than a help, eventually to cut costs our office was closed, and I was jobless --- since then I have been happily working away for myself.

 

I was talking to a colleague whom works for a Scottish Power as a software developer the other day, she was saying how they are going to have massive job losses in their IT sections as the company is outsourcing development to India and Poland. The workers there all had to laugh - as they got a document from the companies management saying that outsourcing is not the reason that jobs have been going ---- but for large companies to remain competitive to win contracts in IT, they have to look to outsource the work to cut costs and win contracts. Her department now has 6 Indians over from India, over learning the ropes just now .... so the writing is on the wall for her department been closed down some time, and the work going over to India with these Indian fellows at the helm. Again, she tells me that the quality of development delivered from India is not always up to scratch, and has to be redone. It is said by a lot of people whom work in IT that I know here in the UK and over in the USA that the majority of IT development work in 10 years time will be carried out in India or Poland.

 

I dont even want to sart on outsourcing of call centre jobs ....

 

Its just the way of the world I guess, to remain competitive and deliver products/services at lower costs with maximum profits --- outsourcing to India, Poland ... taking in people from Poland and Latvia to do jobs locally at a cheaper rate.

 

I dont like the way its all going, leaves a sour taste in the mouth, nothing can be done about it ... I dont blame the Poles, Latvians ... or Indians. I blame the mickey mouse government we have.

 

Thats my thoughts on it all.

 

Gillies

[Polly]

Heres another slant on the same issue

 

Instead of the UK recieving hords of migrant workers(as guaranteed to them by the Mastrict treaty)just think how a low waged European country could and will offer job and relocation opportunities to the big employers.

 

Major car plants are now eying up the new entrants with a view to setting up massive car plants with EU and own Govt. money to manufacture there whilst at the same time closing established European sites.

 

Ford , Peugeot, Volkswagon are amongst those setting up new plant over there.

 

Look at the Check Republic and how the automotive industry is now bedded down in their country and ask yourself this question. Would we as a country be better off accepting migrant workers into this country or should we risk losing major established employers to the low waged new entrants

 

Either way we finish up with NO work and NO jobs !!!!!!!

 

 

Couldn't agree more

 

Like the situation or not, it's the law. Don't forget, you can go to live and work in Romania

 

HO HO HO !!!!

I'll be following you then, off you go...........

I think not.

[Polly]

i have seen threads like this on almost all forums I subscribe to. I cannot support this government in its cack handed policys but I refuse to critisise the potential immigrants for wanting to come here. lets put it this way, if the boot was on the other foot and you had the job of providing for a family in a s**thole somewhere then someone told you of a place you could legitimatly come to and give them a better life, would you say no?.

It isnt a matter about breaking the law and scrounging. We are supposed to have systems in place that should prevent that in the same way as If I break the law. The problem is that everyone plays the "not my budget" game. Immigration are stretched to the limit as are the police and they all play pass the parcel.

 

Looking back in history we have a great reputation for treating immigrants badly. West Indians who were ASKED to come here and do the jobs we were too idle to do were treated like dogs in the street. The same happened to the jews before them.

 

I happen to know that without cheap, exploited foreign labour the crops yopu so depend on from your supermarket would not be there.

 

Lets not forget also that these eastern economies will catch up one day and as Brian so rightly states..take our remaining industry with them.

 

heres a radical proposal...Why dont we just open our borders like France and the rest of mainland Europe have already unofficially done. It will happen eventually anyway

 

...... and how long before the UK turns into that "Sh!t-Hole" as you so aptly put it. How long before before the Ghettos spring up here. Whoops!!! has it already happened. Remember it takes PEOPLE to create any sh!t-hole in the same way as Adam & Eve conspired to trash paradise. Having migrated FROM a sh!t-hole I suppose you expect these people to adapt themselves to suit their new environment rather than what in reality actually happens, they adapt the environment they've moved TO and re-invent their very own sh!t-hole.

[DavyR]

As all the jobs are going anyway, perhaps now's the time to dig up our back gardens, get a few hens (bird-flu free, of course) and pigs and start living The Good Life?

 

We'll be poor, but we'll be happy. And independent. Who needs carbon poles from the Far East when a hazel wand from the hedgerow will suffice?

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

The difference between 'us' and 'them' is we sit around whinging about change whilst we have no power to stop it and they take a step back and see how they can make money from that change.

 

It was the same when all the corner shops were feeling the pinch when the supermarkets were springing up everywhere 20 years ago.......whilst the traditional owners were sitting bleating, the asians saw an opportunity and took it.

 

There are certain things that irritate me about it all though, such as the less than honest who come into the country. A bit like a provisional driver has to really watch himself for a couple of years, so I believe should a new entrant into the country.........get done for stealing or any kind of violent offence and thats it sonny, off back to where you come from! (they can take our home grown scum with em too IMO)

[zziplexboy]

Please say you were just joking, otherwise you will get dogs abuse for being a hypocrite

 

 

yes I was joking but anyway they hate us as much as we hate them so its all okydokey and politically correct...isn't it??