2+2 does equal 4.

[Dick Dastardly]

Chris it is indeed a mine field! Im really sad that this has happened but the one positive thing that has come from it is that we now seem to be at the stage that we can discuss this as anglers and not so much of the "us and them"

 

People have critisised me for being "honest" about my practices but Im glad I have been as if I had been a member of the "deny all/no comment camp" the last few days would have shown me as both a liar and hypocrite!

 

Bob you and all other matchmen for that matter are not Anti Christs but neither are all pike anglers,crap yobs or what ever!

 

If more people were "all rounders" then they would automaticly have both understanding and tolerance of other areas of our sport.Then the "Holy Grail" of "Angling Unity" may be possible.Then and only then people like myself may be able to enjoy practising the sport in the way I want too without having to break the law. The real facts would be acknowledged and solutions looked for rather than the present situation of the existing rules and regulations being really supported by many due to their own biggoted (at best uninformed) veiws.

[Charrcatcher]

Hi All.

 

I'm new here, so let me say hello to all.

 

But I'm far from new to fishing, in fact I'm a bit of a greybeard. Perhaps I can enter a bit of information here that might serve to clarify what I think is being argued here? I'm a Scot, and fish for all sorts of things. And even (occasionally) succeed!

 

Loch Lomond is nowadays full of Ruffe. Or Pope, if you prefer the other name for this little perch-substitute.

 

Ruffe don't occur naturally in Scotland. At least they didn't until some guys from Southern parts decided to import some and use them for pike-livebait. And then when they were done, they emptied their bait kettles into the loch.

 

This probably happened a number of times, with unknown numbers of guys doing this.

 

Now there's an acknowledged plague of Ruffe in Lomond, and it's likely to cause all sorts of mayhem in terms of impacting other species (like Powan) that occur (almost) nowhere else. This was stupid, and it was selfish. And also now apparently irreversible.

 

This wouldn't have happened if people had sensibly followed guidelines about not moving fish around between waters, or in this case countries. Our waters plainly can't cope with invasive species like Ruffe.

 

Yet now we have to cope them regardless.

 

Think on...

 

Charrfisher.

[Sportsman]

Hi All.

 

I'm new here, so let me say hello to all.

 

But I'm far from new to fishing, in fact I'm a bit of a greybeard. Perhaps I can enter a bit of information here that might serve to clarify what I think is being argued here? I'm a Scot, and fish for all sorts of things. And even (occasionally) succeed!

 

Loch Lomond is nowadays full of Ruffe. Or Pope, if you prefer the other name for this little perch-substitute.

 

Ruffe don't occur naturally in Scotland. At least they didn't until some guys from Southern parts decided to import some and use them for pike-livebait. And then when they were done, they emptied their bait kettles into the loch.

 

This probably happened a number of times, with unknown numbers of guys doing this.

 

Now there's an acknowledged plague of Ruffe in Lomond, and it's likely to cause all sorts of mayhem in terms of impacting other species (like Powan) that occur (almost) nowhere else. This was stupid, and it was selfish. And also now apparently irreversible.

 

This wouldn't have happened if people had sensibly followed guidelines about not moving fish around between waters, or in this case countries. Our waters plainly can't cope with invasive species like Ruffe.

 

Yet now we have to cope them regardless.

 

Think on...

 

Charrfisher.

 

Hello and welcome.

Nice contreversial post to start with

 

What makes you think it was pike fishers who put the Ruffe into Loch Lomond. Did you read it somewhere or are you in possesion of any factual evidence that this was the case?

Edited May 27, 2006 by Sportsman

[GlennB]

Ruffe don't occur naturally in Scotland.

 

A few quick question -

 

did ruffe not occur in Scotland at all before this supposed "invasion" ?

[Dick Dastardly]

Charcatcher are you privvy to some facts that the rest of the fisheries world isnt? [edited - John S]

 

 

Here are some real facts-

 

There has NEVER been a proven case of disease where pike anglers livebaits have been responsible

 

There has NEVER been a proven case of translocation of species caused by pike anglers live baits

 

Sorry about that.Earlier on someone asked if it would be the EA who prosecuted.No,I believe it would have to be DEFRA as no actual EA rule/law was broken.The issue is the atempted moving of live fish over a national border without the correct certification/permission ie importing them in to Ireland.Re translocation no offence is comitted untill the fish are actualy put into the water.Even then it would be covered by the regional authorities in Ireland not the EA (we are talking Southern Ireland/Eire here).

Edited May 28, 2006 by John S

[waterman1013]

"At least they didn't until some guys from Southern parts decided to import some and use them for pike-livebait. And then when they were done, they emptied their bait kettles into the loch."

 

That will be the same "bloody" pikers who took ruff to Canada then!! Spherical objects.

 

This "story" in Scotland is rapidly becoming an internet myth.

 

Please if you cannot prove the statement, don't make it.

 

Have a nice day.

[Andy Macfarlane]

Can I just say, I've never SEEN a single Ruffe in all my days, fishing Lomond. Not one!! I've fished the loch itself, the Endrick, the Arden pits and just about every river or stream that runs into the Loch and I've yet to see one of these supposedly rampant fish. I tell you what I have seen plenty of and that's Powan. You fish a float and maggot off Balmaha pier and you stand a pretty good chance of catching what is, supposedly, the rarest fish in the loch. It's complete crap...honestly. Ruffe are not taking over the loch. They are not the most predominant species present and I don't believe they could impact on anything. Besides, there are more species present that could make a dent in the Powan population, like Perch, Pike, Sea-Trout, Salmon, Ferox, SEALS and Cormorants, to name a few but they simply don't. The whole Ruffe/Lomond saga is a pile of garbage.....and no, I don't believe Pikers introduced them either.

[corydoras]

A few quick question -

 

did ruffe not occur in Scotland at all before this supposed "invasion" ?

I am always being asked this question by English anglers, who for some reason have difficulty with the concept that Ruffe are not native to Scotland. The answer is still the same though. NO, Ruffe are not native to Scotland. They have been introduced to Loch Lomond, I don't know if that is by pike fishers or not, but they are there now and they were not there before.

 

It seems to me that there are a few anglers who could not really give a toss whether or not they cause environmental damage by translocating fish or spreading some kind of disease.

[Andy Macfarlane]

I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to what is and what isn't native to Scotland. Take the simple Bullhead or Miller's Thumb. I recall someone saying they were exclusive to Edinburgh and they were a fairly recent introduction. The fact of the matter is, I've been catching Bullheads from the White Cart for 20+ years and I'm assured they've always been there, in living memory anyway.

The same can be said for Grayling, in the same river. I've known about Cart Grayling for years and I actually had to call the Chairman of the local Trout club to come and confirm my identification, because he thought I had misidentified a bleeding Brown Trout!!

My point is, just because something had been identified for the first time, doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't always there. When a new frog is found in a rainforest, do the scientists assume someone put it there, simply because they, in their infinite wisdom, had never seen it before?

[poledark]

Could I have a bit of clarification here please? Is it not illegal to move/transfer Any fish from one water to another in England without the appropriate health certificate?

 

 

How does anyone decide whether a fish (of any species) is carrying a harmful desease/bacteria without lab testing?

 

Budgie, would you take livebaits from another water to Wingham?? (assuming you were asked to pike/perch fish there in the first place)

 

So many red herrings brought into this argument (illegally ? ) ........the rules are simple...no close season on rivers....don't fish them.

 

No moving fish from one water to another..........don't move them,

 

No taking fish from a water without the owners consent....don't take them.

 

Personal preferences (i.e I KNOW BETTER THAN THE EXPERTS ) do not enter the equation.

 

Whether someone is cheating or not is irrellevent,

 

Den