regional differences

[Guest challenge]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1860787,00.html

Hmmmm! Give them sonar capabilities and they may even be able to find the last two cod!!

We are still waiting for the fish finder. The problem with this technology Leon is that there are no boats left to direct to the fish.

I don’t know weather you have a very dry sense of humor Leon? Ether that or you are very gullible. Newspaper editors must love readers like you.

O yes bye the way Leon we have had sonar capabilities for years to direct our anglers to the fish.

Regards.

[Leon Roskilly]

I don’t know weather you have a very dry sense of humor Leon? Ether that or you are very gullible.

 

It was tongue in cheek challenge, but then ........................................

[big_cod]

What everybody seems to forget that the cod recovery plan has in real terms has only been working for just a couple of years and fish will not return in numbers they once were over night any body who thinks different have got there head in the clouds.

We are very lucky down here to have probably have some of the best grounds in the north sea situated at no great distance from the shoreline that is why upon till 5 or 6 years ago you would see as many as 20 trawlers working from whitby, brid, scarborugh all visible from shore with the naked eye, the amount of cod taken within the 3 mile of whitby must be incredible some boats never went aback of the 3 mile all winter that just shows how prolific the grounds of whitby are we all know they arent what they were but there still is some fantastic cod here that would put some of the so called top ports to shame.

Edited August 30, 2006 by big_cod

[Guest challenge]

What everybody seems to forget that the cod recovery plan has in real terms has only been working for just a couple of years and fish will not return in numbers they once were over night any body who thinks different have got there head in the clouds.

We are very lucky down here to have probably have some of the best grounds in the north sea situated at no great distance from the shoreline that is why upon till 5 or 6 years ago you would see as many as 20 trawlers working from whitby, brid, scarborugh all visible from shore with the naked eye, the amount of cod taken within the 3 mile of whitby must be incredible some boats never went aback of the 3 mile all winter that just shows how prolific the grounds of whitby are we all know they arent what they were but there still is some fantastic cod here that would put some of the so called top ports to shame.

I agree with you big cod on your point regarding the cod recovery plan. We must give cod the chance to recover.

I don’t agree with DEFRA stance when they keep upping the amount that they think it should recover each year and then when that has not happened they cut the quota further.

Hopefully cod will again return in number to the inshore grounds.

We had a ten hour party on Sunday and I had a fish for a short while, the codlings where there to be caught.

Whitby boats have been traditionally inshore trawling boats, when I was at it in emulate one with Howard we did well on the inshore beats.

That’s doesn’t mean that Scarborough men weren’t doing any good on the offside grounds, it just meant that Whitby boats managed to make a living catching fish on the grounds they traditionally new.

Weather and size of boat determined where you fished (offside) most of the time. Knowledge was the second factor. When I went with Howard in the Sophie Louise we tended to work off side grounds at every opportunity.

Winter fishing inside for trawlers was a money earner but an expensive way to catch fish.

Damage etc to your gear (if you where a boat owner and therefore paying for lost and damaged gear) took the cream of your boats earnings.

There is plenty of savage ground off side that can also bring the rewards and damage but it was never as assessable to us (for one of the above reasons or another) in winter time.

Lets just hope that if the cod do recover in abundance as it use to be we are not all sat with stringent bag limits and ridicules rod taxation because of somebody else’s fishery.

Regards.

[glennk]

Aye Leon, it interesting to look at the landings statistics, with "Landings into the Uk by UK vessels, by area of capture, a damn sight more relevant to what Challenge was saying , than your lumping togeather of everything from Pelagic to shellfish, from Cornwall to the Barents Sea !

 

Still, gave you a chance to slip in the political message, however dodgy the facts

To save anyone else having to wade through them, these are the recorded landings by Uk vessels from the central North Sea :

 

[/b]2000 48105 tonnes (pre Cod recovery plan)

 

2004 32736 tonnes

 

2005 27019 tonnes

 

Seems to back up what Challenge says as far as i can tell.

 

Since GlennK is bound to be interested in cod I also looked up Uk landings of them for the central North sea;

 

2000 6613 tonnes

 

2004 1909 tonnes

 

2005 1363 tonnes

 

Its hard to think in tonnes of fish, but if anyone is familar with the 3ft by 2ft by 6 inch fishboxes that get washed ashore (up North anyway..) then a tonne is about 20 of them.

 

Chris.

 

btw just spotted that the entire years UK 2004 and 2005 cod catch for that area, would fit into the tanks of the Altaire or any of a dozen or more Scots Pelagic boats! Even the total Uk demersal landings for the central north sea would be peanuts in pelagic fishing terms.

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

I have always agreed that the amounts of boats is down and and by the looks of it so are catches - due to lack of fish, cuts in quota, days at sea, oil prices and the availability of work that pays better than fishing (plus a few other issues no doubt). The figures for the year 2000 could still be greater if you accounted for the amount of Black fish landed. I guess noone will ever know a true figure but have any of the scientists ever made an estimation of just how much of the stock was taken illegally ? What happened throughout the 90's and into the millenium has no doubt contributed to the figure you quote for 2005. IMO the cod recovery plan only kicked into gear very recently perhaps 18 months to 2 years ago when Defra got their arse kicked by the eu for lack of enforcement. Shame it hadent happened 10 years ago then the 2005 figure may have been double that of 2000 . There are now signs of a small recovery no doubt related to enforcement and the taking of less fish. I hope further enforcement of the rules means the next few years sees the return of cod in numbers off the north east coast of the uk meaning a better future for anglers and commercials alike.

[Guest challenge]

Hi Chris,

 

I have always agreed that the amounts of boats is down and and by the looks of it so are catches - due to lack of fish, cuts in quota, days at sea, oil prices and the availability of work that pays better than fishing (plus a few other issues no doubt). The figures for the year 2000 could still be greater if you accounted for the amount of Black fish landed. I guess noone will ever know a true figure but have any of the scientists ever made an estimation of just how much of the stock was taken illegally ? What happened throughout the 90's and into the millenium has no doubt contributed to the figure you quote for 2005. IMO the cod recovery plan only kicked into gear very recently perhaps 18 months to 2 years ago when Defra got their arse kicked by the eu for lack of enforcement. Shame it hadent happened 10 years ago then the 2005 figure may have been double that of 2000 . There are now signs of a small recovery no doubt related to enforcement and the taking of less fish. I hope further enforcement of the rules means the next few years sees the return of cod in numbers off the north east coast of the uk meaning a better future for anglers and commercials alike.

How much fish was taken in that period glenk? I don’t know and neither do you. Only the fishermen themselves can tell you that. So why should we direct our blame on speculation?

I don’t think that it was such a free for all as we might all think because there was a hell of a lot of money passing hands in the way of quota buying and quota leasing in that period. Why bye quota if your totally ignoring (illegally) the quota system in place.

It’s gone now glenk, what’s happened has happened. Just glad I was not a part of it.

The job was hard at times without all that bureaucratic cat and mouse games to put up with.

I hope you are right and there are signs of recovery, so who do we congratulate for that? The fishermen because of there restraint, or the in forcers because of there policing?

With the size of the fleet (British) we have today and a bit of regional well thought out management they should be plenty for all.

[glennk]

John,

 

Like you say whats gone has gone and We cant change that. Im just glad that past practices are now history. I personally would not really want to congratulate anyone, simply becasue im so angry about the balls up that preceeded recent enforcement. If I had to congratulate anyone it would be the eu for giving DEFRA the ****ing that was required for them to sort things out, To my mind the fisherman showed little restraint in the past so I feel unless they are kept an eye on they would show little restraint in the future.

I realise we are poles apart on this and I do not seek to alter your stance, only to make clear my feelings.

Past ICES surveys have highlighted a discrepancy in actual recorded fish removed from the fishery and their perception of the state of the stock. I guess that is as close as we could ever get to knowing just how much black fish passed over the walls of fish keys across the country. If the Whitby fleet passed almost half a million pounds worth in a 3 month period I just hope all the speculation was untrue that they had been doing the same thing for the preceeding 10 years. But like you say whats it matter now - Just an opportunity missed.

Edited August 31, 2006 by glennk

[Guest challenge]

John,

 

Like you say whats gone has gone and We cant change that. Im just glad that past practices are now history. I personally would not really want to congratulate anyone, simply becasue im so angry about the balls up that preceeded recent enforcement. If I had to congratulate anyone it would be the eu for giving DEFRA the ****ing that was required for them to sort things out, To my mind the fisherman showed little restraint in the past so I feel unless they are kept an eye on they would show little restraint in the future.

I realise we are poles apart on this and I do not seek to alter your stance, only to make clear my feelings.

Past ICES surveys have highlighted a discrepancy in actual recorded fish removed from the fishery and their perception of the state of the stock. I guess that is as close as we could ever get to knowing just how much black fish passed over the walls of fish keys across the country. If the Whitby fleet passed almost half a million pounds worth in a 3 month period I just hope all the speculation was untrue that they had been doing the same thing for the preceeding 10 years. But like you say whats it matter now - Just an opportunity missed.

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