My idea/plan?

[egbert]

I can't get 5cwt of tools on a bike either, not to mention two pairs of stools a step ladder and a couple of hundred boxes of screws and nails. It's only a five minute walk to where I'm currently working but the van still has to go.

 

There are however plenty of people who could travel by other means rather than use a car.

 

Just as an example, I never went to school in a car, not even once. I doubt I'm alone in that respect amongst my contemporaries but how many still at school now can say that?

 

Not sure I want loads of extra cyclists on the disused railway lines, there is one near here which I walk fairly regularly whilst birding and there are enough cyclists zooming up and down as it is, too many damned joggers and horse riders on there as well. Up against the wall with the lot of them.

why can't you leave your van at work and cycle to work. at the end of the day cycle back again.

i cycle to school everyday ! as soon as this would happen you would still get moans from the government about saftey!

[Peter]

Regarding 'bright? ideas' about cycling 5 or 10 miles to work. might be alright if the weather is OK but absolute suicide in bad weather on a major 'A' class dual carriageway such as the A14 or A12 as the two biggest roads in this area. Public transport is OK in an east west direction but only during the working day. Public transport north south is non existant. If you work rotating shifts starting by 6.00am or after midnight, public transport starts after you get to work and finishes before you leave off. I have tried car sharing but that was rarely successful as there was no guarantee that everyone would leave off at the same time. Living in a rural area and doing a job that involves moving to a different work location every 3 or 4 years means your own transport is vital and that doesn't mean a pedal cycle.

While I am sure that 'David T' has very good intentions, I will assume from the fact that he mentions 'university' that his age is in the early 20's. I will also assume that he lives in an urban area with good street lighting and the possibility of good public transport. Not all of us have that luxury! During a 40 year working career I was able to use a bus or a pedal cycle for about 10 years, I also lived near enough to where I worked to walk there for 5 years. Then my work place changed and I had to travel 15 miles each way at any time of the day or night, for the next 20 plus years travel distance varied between 8 and 20 miles to get to work and the same to return. People need cars

[Leon Roskilly]

People need cars

 

In my town there was a cinema that the whole district could reach by bus, train, cycle and walking.

 

The custom of several nearby resturants, sweet shops etc was supported by people visiting the cinema.

 

Then an out of town cinema complex was opened, that could only be reached by car.

 

The cinema in town lost a large part of it's audience and closed, and so did nearby businesses.

 

If I want to go to the cinema now I need a car.

 

 

 

At one time everyone had local jobs, but because we now need cars for many things we once got by without, and have developed a car dependent infrastructure (large shopping centres, garden centres and supermarkets miles away etc - as car usage increased so public transport systems became unviable), we now think nothing of taking a job 1, 2 or more hours driving away)

 

And so if we want a job we often need a car.

 

 

 

My daughter and partner have bought a house in an estate that backs onto what was once a county lane, now a winding narrow rat run, unsafe to walk along, no pavements and no shops for two or three miles, if they leave the house, they need a car.

 

 

 

We almost all need a car because cars are available and we have rearranged the places we work, live and play around the accessibility for most of the population to cars, at reasonably affordable cost.

 

 

But the truth is that our car dependent society is unsustainable, and is starting to come apart at the seams.

 

 

 

Once people needed horses, supply centres and the distance between towns was geared towards horse-drawn transport, watering troughs were supplied, as were drinking fountains and toilet facilities for pedestrians.

 

People of the time really didn't think that all around them was an infrastructure, and a pattern to their lives governed by horse-drawn transport, nor could they envisage an alternative, nor the fact that the world as they knew it could, in fact would be transformed.

 

And we, living in a society and infrastructure dominated by motor transport simply cannot imagine an alternative, nor believe that in another era, not so far away, people will look back at that era of the motor car much as we look back upon the era of the horse.

 

No, not a return to the horse-drawn days, but even so an infrastructure where we spend our days in our close communities, working with others scattered across the globe, 'printing' consumer objects in our homes, meeting virtually (see Skype - imagine that in 10 years time), buying food mainly produced with zero air miles.

 

Maybe.

 

The alternative doesn't look good at all!

[Leon Roskilly]

Regarding 'bright? ideas' about cycling 5 or 10 miles to work. might be alright if the weather is OK but absolute suicide in bad weather on a major 'A' class dual carriageway such as the A14 or A12 as the two biggest roads in this area.

 

 

We know our area from the routes that we travel.

 

Most people thinking about taking up cycling, think about the safety of the routes they now use and think again.

 

And yet, once you take the plunge, other possibilities emerge.

 

Quite roads, byeways, lanes, bridlepaths.

 

Even in built up areas there are networks of quiter roads that you'd be mad to consider using as a rat run for driving down, but very practical on a bike.

 

In organised places, the local council and/or cycling organisation even have maps of suggested bicycle routes, much quieter and safer than the congested or speeding A roads nearby.

 

And in taking different routes, you discover more, and places you never knew existed.

 

(ps I commuted for many years from East london, then later from North London into Victoria, before moving to the Medway Towns, Oh! and for 9 months or so living in Holland)

 

For softies you don't have to cycle in all weathers, you can sometimes use the car! but it's surprising how few days it's actually raining during the half hour you are actually commuting.

 

Oh! and when the weather is fine, you'd be amazed at how good cycling makes you feel, and how much being fit and healthy makes a difference to the enjoyment of your days - and with no gym costs!

 

Even those people who commute by car over too great a distance to cycle, could consider a good fold-up bike for the boot of the car, and tackle the last (say) 5 miles by bike, perhaps avoiding hefty parking charges in the town centre.

[Newt]

As usual Leon - you take an 'either / or' situation and offer realistic compromise.

 

Excellent response.

[Snatcher]

I am all for "green" ideas/responses Newt. A few disused rail tracks have been opened up as cycleways in our area. As for myself I work shifts and public transport is no good in my case. Also a round trip of 36 miles a day on a bike at my age is out of the question.

 

Will be out of the rat race by 2009 at some stage. Plan on taking early retirement as I have had a decent pension quote so will be spending most of the summer on the Mull of Galloway in our static caravan.

 

At least in that way I will cutting down on car emissions. Bring it on

[ayjay]

why can't you leave your van at work and cycle to work.

 

Do you have any idea of the value of those tools?

 

No,I thought not.

 

Do you have any idea of how many times tradesmans vans are robbed of tools?

 

Probably not.

 

I still have all mine because I don't take chances with them, I regularly turn down work if there is no parking nearby. It's just too easy a target to spot for those with criminal tendencies.

 

The answer to the first question btw is about £5000.

[egbert]

Do you have any idea of the value of those tools?

 

No,I thought not.

 

Do you have any idea of how many times tradesmans vans are robbed of tools?

 

Probably not.

 

I still have all mine because I don't take chances with them, I regularly turn down work if there is no parking nearby. It's just too easy a target to spot for those with criminal tendencies.

 

The answer to the first question btw is about £5000.

core i was only saying no need to get angry mate

[Peter]

While not wishing to have an arguement with those whose circumstances are different to mine, I f I explain my location and circumstances in more detail perhaps it may be a little clearer why I don't consider a pedal cycle as an option for comuting to work. I live is Stowmarket in Suffolk UK. (area well known to Elton.) For the last 30 years of my working life I was a serving Police Officer. In 1975 I was posted to Stowmarket where my wife and I bought a house. For six years I worked there and was able to cycle or walk to work. In 1981 I was posted to Bury St Edmunds, a town approx 15 miles to the west. To cycle and avoid the main A14 road would have probably entailed a jouney of 20 miles. Early shift started at 0600hrs and late shifts could finish at 0200hrs or later. Public transport started at 0630hrs and finished at about 2200hrs. shiftwork and public transport are not compatable in this area. As you never know how long you are going to work at a location moving house is a risky expensive option. in 1989 I was posted to Ipswich which is about 12 miles to the east of Stowmarket. 3 years there then posted to Sudbury which is about 20 miles south of Stowmarket. No public transport at all in this direction apart from public transport available times. there were no buses to catch. 5 years there then back to a small Police station only about 6 miles west of Stowmarket. that was possible to get to and avoid the main roads. 2 years there then back to Bury st Edmunds again this time for about 3 years. On this posting, late shifts finished at 0300hrs. Then finally a posting to Debenham which is about 14 miles North of Stowmarket. There is Public transport from Debenham to Stowmarket and return but only on a Tuesday. Leave Debenham at 0915hrs and return at 1430hrs. Once again not something which readily adapts to shift work. 2 years of that and I have now retired and run a delivery/courier business delivering machines for the food processing business I don't intend to put half tonne machines on the back of a bike either I estimate that to live near to where I was working could have meant moving house at least 6 times which could have had an adverse effect on my childrens schooling and friends.

While I agree that some people live where public transport exists and also work the sort of hours which allows them to make use of it, not everyone is in that position. Either you have a large amount of valuble or heavy equipment that you need where ever you are working that day or through no choice of yours you find yourself working at different locations which are too far to walk or cycle to.

What is suitable for some people is not suitable for everyone.

[david t]

I see that most have the intention to act in a greener way, but people are right, i suppose sometimes it is very hard to live without cars, and especially with trains being expensive (its £50 to get from bucks to aberystwyth (my university town) which is alot for a train).

 

peter, I see that your intentions are good, and i see that as you are older than me, (please dont take offence) you may be less able than me on a bicycle, and that also if you were to cycle you would have to do so on busy A roads. You are right about me in some respects, yes, I am 21 and ride a racing bike and mountain bike alot, as a sport, but i come from a rural area, and i am at university in aberystwyth, which i dont class as urban really, but its probably easier for me to cycle in these areas, than it is for you in yours. What i started this post for is precisely what you mentioned earlier, the fact that you have to cycle on A roads, I hate cycling on A roads, I got swept of the road by a courier lorry earlier in 2006, and i wouldnt want that to happen to anyone else, especially when the bugger didnt stop! see, precisely what i would like peter, is for people to be able to use ENCLOSED cycle tracks to get to work, I think they would be viable. Like someone said earlier, its a farce when councils paint lines on the road and call it a cycle track, its not, a white line doesnt protect you from a car!

 

On the whole, im basically saying that there would be reasonable, measurable benefits to having more enclosed off road cycle tracks, such as reduced congestion/pollution, and it will help peoples fitness, BUT, im not saying it will totally solve all global warming issues, and im not saying that it is viable to everyone, or that it will solve third world debt and corruption.

 

my lecturer made a good point today, regarding 'green' energy, when hydroelectric power stations are built by flooding valleys, and damming them, the carbon dioxide NOT given out, by NOT having a powerstation, is often offset, at least in the short term, by the the production and release of methane as the grass and other vegetation that is flooded in the valley is broken down. Thus the methane given out (methane being 5 times more efficeint at trapping heat compared with carbon dioxide) is more harmful to the atmosphere than the carbon that would have been produced by an equivalent powerstation.

 

cheers

dave