anti-bacterials good or bad

[nick]

Just following on from a side road in the Blair good or bad topic I just thought I would ask what people think of anti-bacterial products.

 

For me they are yet another con job foisted upon us by the marketing departments. We have managed to keep our homes and persons clean for centuries without them. Were we have needed to kill germs bleach has done it superbly, and cheaply, abd without any long term detriment to the environment. For the most part even that is not required and we can maintain good hygiene with basic soap and water.

 

There are many interesting reports available on-line that suggest that household use of these products is causing many problems.

 

For example this one from Australia

 

Anyone any thoughts?

[DavyR]

I agree. There is mounting evidence that autoimmune conditions like asthma and allergies, which are on the increase, are due at least in part to children's immune systems getting little or no "practice" in dealing with bacteria. Not only do the kids not get out to play as they used to, they're confined within homes that attempt to be 100% sterile!

[chesters1]

if you dont eat germs when your young you don't build a resistance to them for later life ,nothing wrong with something being visually clean but now the norm is near sterile ,good for companies that sell the products but bad for the humans that use them both in building resistance and unknown long term harm from the chemicals within that could come from using them.

i cant abide spray type chemicals and get headaches when some are used but folks blindly spray muck in the air which ofcourse they ingest via their lungs and skin without a thought to what its doing to them.

forget testing and the law and "safety" and worry about the long term use which ofcourse cant be tested and the results could be horrifying ,remember asbestos and a miriad of chemicals were safe when they were introduced.

hospitals used to have a hospital smell from the basic but effective chemicals used to kill germs now "cleaning" is no more than pushing dust containing the germs with a broom around the wards .and just how clean is that air pumped out of the ceiling (if the hospital has air con) or is it just recirculated air containing who knows what.

i hate hospitals they are full of sick people bundled together spreading disease amoungst each other

 

there is also some strange urge to have things smell like something else ,you use air freshener to simulate the outside yet the outside is free just by opening a window,clothes have to smell like something so the products are filled with unknown chemicals to make your boxers smell like the andes .even stranger if you dont want products that contain smells you pay more

Edited May 10, 2007 by chesters1

[Mister Toad]

My wife swears by them but, personally, I think they are a complete waste of money in the home environment. I think simple hygiene procedures are quite sufficient.

 

In hospitals etc where there is a risk of MRSA then its a different matter. Although it seems that the place you go when you're most vulnerable is a very good place to pick up an infection.

 

At least with doctors using an appointment system, you now spend less time sitting around breathing in the germs of other sick people.

[chesters1]

old fashioned chemicals that used to kill germs like ammonia and carbolic acid and other stuff are now banned (and are extremely effective against all germs on hard surfaces) because some git said they were dangerous (probably with information supplied by manufacturers who don't make them).

it would be interesting to see how many peopled died that had contact withthose chemicals in hospital and the hundred of thousands that have died now the're not used

[nick]

From my own observations kids from homes where these products are used obsessively seem to suffer a disproportionate number of illnesses compared those where they are not used.

 

My own children, now 10, 8 and 2 have between them been physically sick 3 times - literally! My eldest daughter has never seen a doctor with an illness, my younger one had a bought of gastroenteritis requiring hospital treatment at 3 years old.

 

We have no allergies.

 

We have never used anti-bacterial products - or the almost obsessive air freshners. We eat fresh fruit and veg even straight out of the ground, and the kids have spent most of their lives playing around on farmland.

 

By contrast my brothers and sister's kids and my in-laws kids all suffer from everything going, they are sick more often than I change my socks. They are constantly off school with this cold and that bug, they suffer from nut allergies and hay fever and asthma.

 

The only common factor is they all live closed in city lives play on computers and get sprayed with chemicals and swabbed with chemicals and wrapped in chemicals every hour of every day. They also tend to eat a diet rich in junk and additives and low on fresh produce and home prepared food.

 

It just seems an obvious conclusion to me that the overuse of modern chemicals is having unforeseen consequences. At least unforeseen by those who should foresee such things.

[DavyR]

It just seems an obvious conclusion to me that the overuse of modern chemicals is having unforeseen consequences. At least unforeseen by those who should foresee such things.

 

I think you're right, but the problem lies in scientifically proving cause-and-effect. Common sense isn't good enough any more as everything has to be "evidence-based". And this one is never going to be scientifically proven, as to do so, you'd have to run a huge study, over a number of years, and control for any possible exposure to chemicals in the "natural" group (and withold decent food and fresh air in the control group).

[ColinW]

I think they should change the adverts

 

"Mr Muscle, loves the jobs you're too fat and lazy to do, now get off that sofa, put the fag out and do some cleaning!"

[chesters1]

trouble is its the gullible who are reeled in by chemical firms telling them their clothes (for instance) are filthy unless their whiter than white etc ,those mouth washes that "help" prevent tartar but none remove it and a million and one other reasons that usually hide that their products actually dont do anything more than traditional stuffed used by our forefathers ,look for the get out clauses like "use as necessary" (whatever that means) ,machines and dietry products that promise weight loss but have a small line saying to use it as "part of a healthy diet " (just the healthy diet will do the trick with any exercise) ,in reality just washing clothes in fresh water removes most dirt and rids it of most germs ,that dirt and germs that are left are just naturally background to your everyday enviroment anyway and so you naturally deal with them errr naturally.

 

i especially dont like washing powder that smells (nor any other product insisting i want it) it brings me out in a rash ,only fairy seems to be ok but that just probably means it just doesent contain one certain chemical that the rest do but it doesent mean any other chemicals in it are less harmfu just that my body doesent notice itl.

Edited May 10, 2007 by chesters1

[chesters1]

I think they should change the adverts

 

"Mr Muscle, loves the jobs you're too fat and lazy to do, now get off that sofa, put the fag out and do some cleaning!"

trouble is most products don't do what they say on the bottle ,if something kills 99.9% of household germs it just means those hard bastards left have more room to breed

find a stain remover that removes rust or mildew or a smell less air freshener.

the biggest con on the telly advert at the moment is that chrome cleaner that doesent contain harmfull chemicals ,your poor tarnished (due to the "harmfull" products) chrome becomes as new ,bright and shiney once more ,does this less harmfull product re-plate the chrome with new chrome? nope whats there is the same tarnished chrome.

the nanny state under europe is removing products that have worked and substituting ones that dont ,if you treat creosote with respect then its a perfect wood treatment but now its gone ,jeyes fluid no longer works as it did and the same goes for thousands of other products that promise on the lable but cant achieve it out of the bottle.

pesticides no longer kill pest because the one that did "may" harm wildlife ,well thats what i want to do thats what its for if i wanted to persuade aphids to go i'd put up signs

Edited May 10, 2007 by chesters1