Rescue your mate?

[snakey1]

My two cents..

 

Six feet is shallow enough to hold your breath long enough to access the situation. Having been confined space trained in the UK. The O2 level needs to be around 21%. It becomes hazardous at 19.5%. You will get ringing in the ears, shortness of breath and other symptoms before you lose conciousness. Various gases to worry about like C02 and Nitrogen. Both, if memory serves, displace oxygen so just sticking your head in the hole can cause you to lose conciousness.

 

The training stated that if there was ever an incident where there was someone in the space that needed assistance you were to call but this is one of those judgment calls I think.

 

I know where this is leading. Had the circumstances been a bit different (the hole deeper, combustable gases that could be detected by smell) I would have called first.

I don't think its the lack of O2 thats the suggested problem more the prescence of H2S (hydrogen sulphide which has an LC50 level of 800ppm for 5 minutes exposure but can cause pulmonary edema and possible death at rates as low as 320ppm) we had a guy exposed to H2S by just opening an inspection cover and looking inside once and it made him very ill indeed. mind you if your working in that sort of environment gas detectors (most personnel gas alarms pick up H2S at concentrations of around 10-20ppm i believe)and compressed air self rescue kits used to be the order of the day when i did it, things may have changed now.

[captain cojones]

i would nip into my local canaries´r ús store.grab a little yellow bassard and fling him down the pit to see if he snuffed it

[barry luxton]

i would nip into my local canaries´r ús store.grab a little yellow bassard and fling him down the pit to see if he snuffed it

 

 

I'll give that two

 

Did you see del and rodney episode when they thought they had killed densils wife's canary, can't think of her name.. Priceless.

Edited January 16, 2008 by barry luxton

[captain cojones]

I'll give that two

 

Did you see del and rodney episode when they thought they had killed densils wife's canary, can't think of her name.. Priceless.

 

agreed barry, brilliant stuff......shame they´re not making the programs any more.

[Jeff S]

I don't think its the lack of O2 thats the suggested problem more the prescence of H2S (hydrogen sulphide which has an LC50 level of 800ppm for 5 minutes exposure but can cause pulmonary edema and possible death at rates as low as 320ppm) we had a guy exposed to H2S by just opening an inspection cover and looking inside once and it made him very ill indeed. mind you if your working in that sort of environment gas detectors (most personnel gas alarms pick up H2S at concentrations of around 10-20ppm i believe)and compressed air self rescue kits used to be the order of the day when i did it, things may have changed now.

 

 

You are correct Snakey I didn't mean to leave out the LELs. Standards haven't changed. If anything they have improved. The alarms are smaller and most do multiple gases to include LELs. They also alarm for length of exposure- say for X hours at X ppm. FWIW in this poll, the 'mate' shouldn't have been left alone in the first place which is why you have that person at the top and your harness always attached to the tripod.

 

This poll, I think, was meant to see how many people would disregard the rules and not knowing what those rules are, most people (I suspect) would have rushed in without thinking about it. Personally, I would have broken the 'rules' regardless based on the risk as assessed at the time and understanding those 'rules'. Thankfully I don't do that sort of work any longer.

 

added: Assuming this as applied to the Volunteer hero that saved the girl at the cliff, I would also think he was fully aware of the risk involved during his assessment.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Jeff S

[Dan]

You are correct Snakey I didn't mean to leave out the LELs. Standards haven't changed. If anything they have improved. The alarms are smaller and most do multiple gases to include LELs. They also alarm for length of exposure- say for X hours at X ppm. FWIW in this poll, the 'mate' shouldn't have been left alone in the first place which is why you have that person at the top and your harness always attached to the tripod.

 

This poll, I think, was meant to see how many people would disregard the rules and not knowing what those rules are, most people (I suspect) would have rushed in without thinking about it. Personally, I would have broken the 'rules' regardless based on the risk as assessed at the time and understanding those 'rules'. Thankfully I don't do that sort of work any longer.

 

added: Assuming this as applied to the Volunteer hero that saved the girl at the cliff, I would also think he was fully aware of the risk involved during his assessment.

 

 

Yep indeed! and to show how easy it can be to be a dead hero, remember if it was a DIY job, its likely that no one would have any PPE, let alone alarms.

 

As for the Coastguard weve got no idea if he even made an assessment, but as the MCA said, he hasnt been told off ............!

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Yep indeed! and to show how easy it can be to be a dead hero, remember if it was a DIY job, its likely that no one would have any PPE, let alone alarms.

 

As for the Coastguard weve got no idea if he even made an assessment, but as the MCA said, he hasnt been told off ............!

 

There is major difference between the two situation, people involved with entering chambers and other various vessels would or should be well adversed with well planned procedures and safety manuals and be professionally employed.

 

Where as the coastguard situation is manned by volunteers, not saying they are poorly trained but the environment is very different added to which every call out will be in an unquantified situation.

 

Sewage,waste and petro-chem plant employees know the area they work in and again should be fully conversant with all aspects of that area and have all the required equipment to hand. Having said that if your inside a plant and the cracker unit goes up I very much doubt you will have the opportunity to kiss your butt good bye before you take of in a fiery ball Always said the main requirement for working in such environments was a good sense of humour.

[Dan]

I think I disagree Ken, the Coast Guard are volunteers (like the RNLI), they are both well trained and experts in their fields, plus I had a DIY situation in mind, ie people not being familair with working in confined spaces, which the poll bears out.

 

I do agree that people doing it professionally should know what they are doing.

 

The other thing I have been saying is that its easy to make assumptions from news articles only telling the half of a story that sells papers!! Equally making assumptions from a Poll that doesnt give much detail!!

 

Dan

Edited January 17, 2008 by Dan

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I think I disagree Ken, the Coast Guard are volunteers (like the RNLI), they are both well trained and experts in their fields, plus I had a DIY situation in mind, ie people not being familair with working in confined spaces, which the poll bears out.

 

I do agree that people doing it professionally should know what they are doing.

 

The other thing I have been saying is that its easy to make assumptions from news articles only telling the half of a story that sells papers!! Equally making assumptions from a Poll that doesnt give much detail!!

 

Dan

 

80% got it right which can't be bad as I doubt many would consider themselves fully trained in that field. Mind you I have always felt despite all the evidence that the angling fraternity have very logical minds filled with lots of fairly useless information Bet if that went on a general chat forum composed of non-anglers the percentage would be nearer 50/50

[Dan]

Cant argue with that Ken!!