Are fish 'clever'?

[BoldBear]

I have often observed Barbel in clear shallowish water becoming very nervous and edgy when a swim feeder is introduced into a swim after casting away from them and very slowly dragging it nearer to them, sometimes even when the swim feeder was there before they arrived. regardless of feed used; even on stretches that are not fished that much.

But Im sure that this is only a natural wariness and not through inteligence as we know it.

 

But I have also had a Barbel which appeared to dive down under the bank where I was standing and put a root into its mouth transfering the hook onto the root, whether this was accidental or on purpose I don't know.

Edited April 9, 2008 by BoldBear

[Guest tigger]

One hot summers day I went to a local clay pit to fish and was accompanied by my wife so I know I didn't imagine what I saw as I had a witness...

 

I threw a few maggots in just about 3ft in front of me and they were instantly attacked by Roach and Perch. I threw a handful more in and dropped my maggot in so that it fell down at roughly the same speed as the others and sited in the middle of them. The fish darted at a blurred speed through the maggots taking every one except mine. (Considering this water was virtually unfished the fish were clever.) Anyway, I expect many people have tried this way of fishing so it's nothing new.

 

The really unusual thing happend later though.

We were sat quietly watching my float when a Perch no longer than a one pence peice shot out of the water through the air and landed in a muddy footprint that was filled with water around a foot away from the waters edge. We both sat looking at it when a moment later a group of Perch (a pound and upwards in weight) swam along the bottom of the clay pit and upwards to where we were sitting. They were very obviously hunting. Once they had continued past still busy on their hunt the little Perch who'd jumped into the muddy footprint seemed to know (I don't know how) and shot back out of the footprint into the pit and swam off sharpish!!

[gozzer]

One hot summers day I went to a local clay pit to fish and was accompanied by my wife so I know I didn't imagine what I saw as I had a witness...

 

I threw a few maggots in just about 3ft in front of me and they were instantly attacked by Roach and Perch. I threw a handful more in and dropped my maggot in so that it fell down at roughly the same speed as the others and sited in the middle of them. The fish darted at a blurred speed through the maggots taking every one except mine. (Considering this water was virtually unfished the fish were clever.) Anyway, I expect many people have tried this way of fishing so it's nothing new.

 

The really unusual thing happend later though.

We were sat quietly watching my float when a Perch no longer than a one pence peice shot out of the water through the air and landed in a muddy footprint that was filled with water around a foot away from the waters edge. We both sat looking at it when a moment later a group of Perch (a pound and upwards in weight) swam along the bottom of the clay pit and upwards to where we were sitting. They were very obviously hunting. Once they had continued past still busy on their hunt the little Perch who'd jumped into the muddy footprint seemed to know (I don't know how) and shot back out of the footprint into the pit and swam off sharpish!!

 

The thing with the maggots, as you say we've all seen. But I've also seen fish dive into a handful of maggots, some fish will approach a maggot and veer off, or take it and spit it out. These are often then taken by other fish. Whether the fish that reject the bait have an increased sense of smell, or sight, that causes it to react that way, I don't know. But it seems more logical (to me) than saying they are clever.

When I hear talk of the sensitivity of a fish's lateral line, or hear how many parts per million a fish can 'smell'. I wonder why we talk as if all fish of the same species are the same.

Doesn't it make sense to assume that (as with every other creature), individuals within a shoal have different levels of sight, 'smell', reaction times etc. So just because one member of a shoal rejects a bait, it doesn't mean that it's 'smarter' than one that takes it. It might be because it's sight was better and it 'saw' something the other didn't, or it's sense of smell was a little keener, and it detected something the other didn't.

 

As for the 'perch in a puddle'. Fry often ground themselves when being chased by preds. Could it not have been a coincidence that there happened to be a puddle there this time.

And could not the small perch have been 'winded', 'stunned' or even 'thought' it was in the main lake for a few moments, (I use the word 'thought' reluctantly). Then instinctively tried to jump clear of the less oxygenated water in the puddle, and luckily jumped in the right direction for the lake.

 

I know some like to 'humanise' fish and their actions, but this is the game that PETA, and the antis play, when trying to show why they feel angling should be banned.

When anglers themselves start attributing human traits and emotions to fish, then I feel that they are playing into the hands of those that seek to abolish angling.

 

John.

[Kappa]

1. Carp

2. Roach

3. Chub

4. Dace

5. Rudd

6. Perch

7. Tench

8. Bream

9. Pike

 

1. Tench

99999999. Trout

 

Personally I rate tench as the trickiest fish. With most fish I'd say the tricky part is getting them to feed well, however once you've done that you'll catch them. However, the number of times I've seen my swim full of bubbles and large tench feeding really well and yet I can't buy a bite!

 

Trout have to be the daftess fish that swims, little buggers take anything that moves and most of what doesn't!

 

Rich

[Ferg]

The fish I hook always seem to know where the best snags are!!!

[Guest tigger]

And could not the small perch have been 'winded', 'stunned' or even 'thought' it was in the main lake for a few moments, (I use the word 'thought' reluctantly). Then instinctively tried to jump clear of the less oxygenated water in the puddle, and luckily jumped in the right direction for the lake.

 

John.

 

 

I know what you mean John but no the Perch knew what it was doing for sure.

It didn't just jump out of the pit in panic. It actually swam up to the bank looking for a hiding place then stopped near the surface of the water before jumping into the footprint full of water. A moment after this the larger Perch came along hunting like a pack of Wolves. The small perch actually waited until the hunting party had gone before returning to the pit.

I know the story sounds far fetched but it happened just as I say.

[gozzer]

I know what you mean John but no the Perch knew what it was doing for sure.

It didn't just jump out of the pit in panic. It actually swam up to the bank looking for a hiding place then stopped near the surface of the water before jumping into the footprint full of water. A moment after this the larger Perch came along hunting like a pack of Wolves. The small perch actually waited until the hunting party had gone before returning to the pit.

I know the story sounds far fetched but it happened just as I say.

 

I'm not doubting what you saw Tigger. But don't you think it's possible that you interpreted it from a human perspective, and as such put human thoughts and reasoning, to what were just instinctive reactions?

 

John.

Edited April 9, 2008 by gozzer

[Anderoo]

1. Tench

99999999. Trout

 

Personally I rate tench as the trickiest fish. With most fish I'd say the tricky part is getting them to feed well, however once you've done that you'll catch them. However, the number of times I've seen my swim full of bubbles and large tench feeding really well and yet I can't buy a bite!

 

Trout have to be the daftess fish that swims, little buggers take anything that moves and most of what doesn't!

 

Rich

 

Interesting! I had tench well down the list. They can be impossible when they're bubbling away but at other times I reckon they're a bit dim! I think they're preoccupied when bubbling, so it's not intelligence that keeps them from being hooked.

 

Can't disagree with the trout though Although they seem to avoid otters better than barbel do. But from a fishing perspective, absolute simpletons!

[Guest tigger]

I'm not doubting what you saw Tigger. But don't you think it's possible that you interpreted it from a human perspective, and as such put human thoughts and reasoning, to what were just instinctive reactions?

 

John.

 

 

 

John the only perspective we can use is a human one since we are human; however just to reassure you we are not members of PETA we have both worked with animals all our lives and look upon them as animals and deffo not as humans.

I can't explain if the perch used reasoning or not but it seemed to. I have to admit it was unusual. I used to keep Tropical marine fish years ago and they really showed signs of intelligence.

[gozzer]

John the only perspective we can use is a human one since we are human; however just to reassure you we are not members of PETA we have both worked with animals all our lives and look upon them as animals and deffo not as humans.

I can't explain if the perch used reasoning or not but it seemed to. I have to admit it was unusual. I used to keep Tropical marine fish years ago and they really showed signs of intelligence.

 

I know your not PETA mate, I've read enough of your posts to realise that.

 

It's just that I find it hard to equate the actions of fish with 'intelligence'.

 

It's the old, 'To catch a fish, learn how to 'think' like a fish', except that I don't believe fish 'think' , just react out of instinct.

 

Just my thoughts and beliefs, that are based on my own personal experiences over the years.

 

John.