piking- getting the right place and time

[Dick Dastardly]

Deadbaiting needs only to be as "in active" as the angler makes it.There is a massive range between hyper active deadbait wobbling and comatose deadbait soaking to play within to find the right level for you.

 

After all it could be said that live baiting is just the lazy mans way of effectively deadbaiting!

Edited December 8, 2008 by BUDGIE

[poledark]

A bit more useless info? My barometer dial goes from 950mb to 1050mb. I assume the 950m would be considered extremely low (remember the hurricane? ) and 1050 extremely (exceptionally ) high.

 

So taking 1000mb as the central point on the dial, then even a rise in pressure up to the maximum on the dial, only equates to the difference in pressure at just over 1foot in depth, (1043mb)

 

Den

[Dick Dastardly]

When ever the subject of air pressure comes up its always pointed out what a small difference it actually is between high and low.Also as Den has the relation in that difference to the relation in the water pressure at various depths.

 

I honestly dont see why such a small change couldnt be detected by a creature who lives in an enviroment so influenced /demarcated (?) by pressure?

 

Ive also argued before that it might not be the actual pressure they can detect either eg it may be an affect (ie change in oxygen level,electrical influences etc etc etc) caused by the pressure change that they feel/detect.

 

So hard to explain my thought process on this in this way.

 

I dont know how or why but once again experience has proved that pike know the weather conditions will be changing with the changing pressure to conditions they find (for what reasons I can only still guess and suggest) best for active feeding.

 

I dont know how or why.I cant put up any links to clever people who do either! no authers who have wrote on the subject or researchers who have wrote papers on it! I can though prove it as long as some one is prepared to fish with me using my ways for a period of time! they will then see exactly what i have and I would have thought come to the same conclussions.

 

Most of my contempory pikers think the same but them most of them fish the same as well.

Edited December 9, 2008 by BUDGIE

[Steve Burke]

A bit more useless info? My barometer dial goes from 950mb to 1050mb. I assume the 950m would be considered extremely low (remember the hurricane? ) and 1050 extremely (exceptionally ) high.

 

So taking 1000mb as the central point on the dial, then even a rise in pressure up to the maximum on the dial, only equates to the difference in pressure at just over 1foot in depth, (1043mb)

 

Den

 

Here's what I wrote when this last came up:

 

"Standard pressure at mean sea level is fixed at 1013.2mb so, strictly speaking, anything above this is high pressure, anything below is low pressure.

 

In practice it depends on whether the air is moving clockwise or anti-clockwise round the centre of an air mass. In the northern hemisphere it moves clockwise round an area of high pressure (an anti-cyclone), and anti-clockwise round an area of low pressure (a depression).

 

Although high pressure is associated with sunny weather it isn't always sunny then, especially in winter when the sun's heat may not be powerful enough to burn away the cloud.

 

We then get "cloudy anti-cyclones". Such weather is often grey and dull, and everything seems lifeless - including me! I find that these are often the kiss of death for fishing."

[Steve Burke]

I suggested earlier that those interested do a search as this topic comes up regularly.

 

What a search may not show up is this interesting topic on barometric pressure as it was originally on perch rather than pike: http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/Perch-r...hl=depth+charge

 

I found one post on this topic by Vagabond particularly helpful, not least because it highlighted a bit that I'd got wrong about pressure.

 

For those who haven't the time or inclination to look at the original here's what I wrote (the capitals I've just added to highlight that the results weren't down to temperature or light levels):

 

"Returning to the atmospheric pressure issue, I don't think it's the direct effect that pressure has on the water as water is largely incompressible.

 

However there's no doubt that trout rise to a surface fly more often in high pressure. Indeed, scientists found that trout in an indoor tank in a CONTROLLED AND ENCLOSED INDOOR ENVIRONMENT swam higher in the water at times of high pressure.

 

Atmospheric pressure can though have a bearing on oxygen exchange at the surface, and Reg Righyni discussed this in "Salmon Taking Times" as did Jack Meyer in "Weather to Fish". Another book worth reading is the recent "Trout, Salmon and the Evening Rise (The Barometric Breakthough) " by Andrew Bett.

 

The explanation I find most convincing though is in a book called "Studies of an Angler". Unfortunately this is little-known, including by modern writers, as it was published in a small edition in Australia in 1950. Wackett's detailed observations led him to a theory based on the effect atmospheric pressure has on the gas in the swim bladder of the fish.

 

And of course, unlike water, gases are certainly compressible."

 

This was the reply from Vagabond, who I believe was an oceanographer and will therefore have dealt with the subject professionally:

 

"That's quite true Steve, but its your deduction that's at fault. BECAUSE water is virtually incompressible it is VERY GOOD at transmitting pressure - including atmospheric pressure (and think about how damaging depth-charges are to submarines - thats 'cos water transmits pressure). So although pressure increases with depth due to the weight of water in the overlying column, at a GIVEN DEPTH the pressure will be that of the water PLUS the atmospheric pressure - with changes in atmospheric pressure readily detectable to a fish that is remaining at a constant depth. The fish may or may not decide to ascend/descend as a result - but that's another issue.

 

Contrast driving a Volvo V70 with comfy compressible seats to driving my "reserve" motor - a Landie Defender with less compressible seats - best described as "rugged" You soon find out which transmits pressure to your backside most."

Edited December 9, 2008 by Steve Burke

[Angly]

Right, that's me told then!

 

I DID Google the topic (honest!), and although there were strong opinions on both sides of the debate, the 'scientific data' offered all seem to support the theory that pressure wasn't itself a factor. It just proves the dangers of a Google search, relying on unknown sources ordered not by factual content, but by public popularity.

 

I honestly didn't think to search AN for the same topic, and I've berated myself by taking myself outside for a 'damn good talking to'. I shall know better in future.

 

Incidentally my afternoon/evening sesh Tuesday was fruitless fish-wise, with water temps at 4 degrees, and visibility down to 1ft, not altogether surprising perhaps. I did however enjoy testing out new equipment and rigs, assessing new swims, feeding the swans, robin and squirrel, watching the robin chasing away the very persistent grey wagtail, and generally just 'being there'.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Angly

[flick]

To be honest if a pikes hungrey it will eat regardless of weather, air pressure, moon phases ect.

 

Flick

[JV44]

Have no idea what the air pressure was today and if that reading whatever it was is supposed to be good or bad but i was invited as a guest to fish a Pike Syndicate lake near me today and we had permission to take my boat out on it,Spent the day trolling lures and shared a 15 fish catch with my mate mick and he fluked a big perch to .

We caught 3 doubles and the rest were all small jacks that had a vivid green colouration and fought brilliantly for lake fish and considering the cold conditions,Lake is very deep[for a southern lake ] and lots of it is well over 20` down to about 30` and the finder showed a readout that looked like the Alps from above.

The wind was freezing cold but it did break up the surface and as the lake is gin clear helped us i suspect ,most of the takes came when the Sun was shining and if anything seemed to act as a trigger every time it popped its head out from behind the clouds.

This was the only shot i got before the camera packed up in the cold ,Does anyone else's digital play up when its cold? ,battery's and everything is fine now its back in the warm but then again i know how it feels only just got the feeling back in my fingers.

Cracking days sport we had the lake to ourselves and nearly every time we went over a ball of prey fish on the finder we got a hit,The fish were shoaled up very tightly and as we criss crossed every square foot of the lake it soon dawns on you that vast tracts of it are barren of fish Steve.

[poledark]

And there you have it JV, "nearly every time we went over a ball of prey fish on the finder we got a hit,"

 

Pike were there because the prey fish were there

 

Den

[JV44]

And there you have it JV, "nearly every time we went over a ball of prey fish on the finder we got a hit,"

 

Pike were there because the prey fish were there

 

Den

Den congrats on your pike that was a cracker i bet you are still smiling now ,The thing is i don't normally trust the fish symbols on finders but this was my mates unit and every time it showed a ball of small fish the hit came shortly after ie as the lure went over that spot but that's amazing to see on the screen as a pre warning,There were no Grebes or Cormorants working the water today so without the finder to find the prey fish and then be able to troll back and forwards over them i doubt if we would have caught as many fish.

As you said find the prey fish and the preds aint gonna be far away Steve.