Romantic Cod and Fish Populations?

[Jaffa]

I don't like discards but I wonder about a few possible effects of say banning them tomorrow. I wonder about these;

 

1. discards have been going on for a long time and on a huge scale;

 

therefore it seems resonable to assume the ecosystem we have now reflects that. How many million seabirds die if we make that change in a day? what knock on effects does the death of those seabirds have on the North Sea ecosystem? Will the end result be more or less fish? (i assume the seabirds will be the least of the changes but at least we all know what they look like).

 

2. If we remove discards will the sale of say a 6" haddock lead to some tv chef coming up with a well publicised recipe that catches on and fuels a drive to catching smaller fish.

 

Its all so simple to interfere..... not

[Leon Roskilly]

OK, brain ache time again

 

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/T4890E/T4890E00.HTM

 

http://www.europarl.eu.int/stoa/publi/98-1...01/chap4_en.htm

 

http://www.oceansatlas.org/cds_static/en/g...opics14703.html

 

 

I wish there was a simple answer

 

Plenty of people ('specially politicians) have simplistic answers!!

 

But they often bring about more problems than they solve

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Jaffa]

Just politicians?

 

The media and multimillion dollar environmentalist groups don't make simplistic points for their own ends??

[Leon Roskilly]

Now that's worrying

 

http://www.anglers-net.co.uk/sacn/latest/i...ex.php?view=251

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Guest jay_con]

Does that include cod?

[Jaffa]

Very much @winter@

 

Thanks for the discards links Leon; fascinating and a lot of it counterintuitive, at least in terms of the way fishery managers and environmentalists used to think. As you say, the one thing it is not is simple

 

Do you know why Greenpeace picked on the Dogger bank as a Marine reserve? ; everything I read in those reports points to it being amongst the last places you would want to stop trawling.

 

Soundbite environmentalism or well thought out reasons that I'm just missing? Be ironic if the discards and dolphin numbers also end up being heavily linked would it not; . Cheer me up Leon and convince they have thought these things out..

 

Highlights the importance of stopping fishing boats getting on to new ground though and the disaster of previous management obsession with TAC's that started the whole North sea quota system in the first place. Haddock numbers at X and they were happy; the fact that the boats were meanwhile trawling on brand new ground for monkfish and cod barely seemed to matter to them......

 

You need a good sense of humour to read this stuff I think; either that or a ready supply of happy pills , though an asprin would do fine atm

 

Don't know about you Leon, but all I read just reinforces a belief that Marine reserves is the only way forward and we need them asap. A patchwork across the North Sea and along the coast.

 

Make a deal with the fishermen for massive reserves in exchange for freeing them of controls elsewhere. Every other fisheries management tool just seems to cause more problems than it tries to correct. I'm not joking when I say I think our stocks would be in a better state had goverment just kept right out of whitefish fishing.

 

Of course that brings up the problem of fish not recognising fences but I just wonder if we are not too blinkered by that one sometimes. It would not surprise me to find fish altering migration patterns and behaviour to avoid commercial boats; certainly thats something the mackeral fishers assume is normal..

 

The importance of older fish also makes you wonder about the relative importance to the cod stock of say of a north sea trawler taking codling as a bycatch in nephrops, and anglers/ Netters fishing wrecks for adult cod.

 

My minds in flux but far from dynamic!

[big_cod]

IF THERE IS GOING TO BE ANY CLOSED AREAS A 3 MILE LIMIT NEEDS TO IMPOSED OF WHITBY, THE AREA FROM TEES BAY DOWN TO SCARBOROUGH HAS TO ONE THE MAIN BREEDING GROUNDS ALONG THE EAST COAST, THE TRAWLER FLEET VERY RARELY GO ABACK OF THIS AREA BECAUSE THROUGH THE WINTER MONTHS THE COD MASS IN THIS AREA SHOALING UP TO SPAWN, THOUSANDS OF TONS OF COD HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM SUCH A SMALL AREA THERE IS MANY REEFS AND DEEP WATER CLOSE BY IDEAL FOR COD TO SPAWN

[Jaffa]

Found a WWF report detailing their case for the Dogger Bank:

 

http://www.ngo.grida.no/wwfneap/Publicatio...ings/Dogger.pdf

 

Big cod I'd like to see the reintroduction of the three mile limit for trawlers up the whole east coast of Scotland.

 

Must be technology that would enable enforcement to be effective and cheap; perhaps software that would automatically switch off fishing electronics when steaming through a Marine Reserve area? anyone heard of a device that could be used but would not have safety implications?

[big_cod]

jaffa i have been told by some of the skippers that they are to be fitted with trackers so dephra know at all times where these boats are , this is gps they would be able to tell if they were trawling or not by the speed they are steaming

[Jaffa]

True but that would be no good in court

 

They used to photograph them from the air and get photos with the wires out and trawl doors missing but even that was open to challenge; "lost my gear and was dragging creepers to get them back" etc

 

A lawyer would have a field day with just boat speed...