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What flavour Carp boilies are best. so many to choose from!!!!


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#11 craig2309

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 06:01 AM

i think what gaffer is trying to say is, boilies with a high nutritional value will be accepted as a food source in the long term, whereas a highly flavoured boilie (shelflife) will have a much more immediate effect but this is only short term as the carp will eventually recognise that the shelflife boilie isnt as high in nutrition as the frozen boilie

craig

#12 Gaffer

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 03:11 PM

In a nutshell Craig is spot on.

terryk:
Are cheaper semolina/soya boilies likely to have different flavour additives to the protein/fishmeal types?  

Semo/Soya is a very cheap bulking agent, which gives the boilie its mass and shape. Semo/soya is usually yellow and takes on colour very well. Semo/soya has very little nutritional value, but can be loaded with flavours to fool the carp into thinking it's something that it isn't. Once the carp starts to eat thse boilies it's not long before they realise that they are low in nutritional value.

Basemixes with milk proteins and fishmeals have a high nutritional value, but the later isn't suited to winter fishing. Fishmeals are also very dark and difficult to colour.

In the winter the carps metabolism is very slow and they don't need eat, but an 'attracter bait' (usually a cheap bait loaded with flavour) can entice a carp to pick it up. These baits are no good in the long term.

Flavours are just flavours, not unlike a packet of Roast Chicken crisps. They smell of lovely chicken, but it's just flavour, nothing more, no nutritional value at all. But if you're not that hungry you just might....

Liquid additives, like amino acids (Nutrimino, Mulitimino, etc) are completely different, as they can enhance any base mix with their nutrition.

terryk:
I have read that carp are more likely to go for the higher nutritional boilie, but could never work out how they would know what is and what isn't.

Carp, over the centuries, have learnt to provide themselves with food containing high amounts of protein to survive. In other words, they are very efficient eating machines and will try to consume as much protein as they can, in small efficient parcels. Over a short space of time carp will be able to work out the nutritional value of a bait, they would simply have to eat too much of a cheap 'attractor bait' to gain the proein levels that they need to sustain.

terryk:
Your comments: "A flavour is a signature and will not convey the actual nutritional value of the boilie to the carp", and ".....high in nutritional value and will have enough flavour to leak off as a signature", seem to contradict each other.

Semo/seyo boilies can be loaded with flavour to fool the carp.
Boilies with a high nutritional value will only need enough flavour to give them a signature as the nutritional value of the base mix will prove to be a long term food source. In other words, a bait with a high nutritional value only needs a flavour to entice a pick-up, it doesn't have to fool the carp.

terryk:
I'm not trying to be contentious, just getting my head around whats what.

No problems at all mate, keep firing away. One thing I will say is that this subject can get very complicated. I've just given the crude version.

[ 20. February 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Gaffer ]

#13 terryk

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 10:34 PM

Gaffer,
Many thanks for taking the time to explain the above. I can understand how 'boilies' can be big business nowadays.

Another question...does the above have any correlation with the 'shelf-life' vs 'fresh/frozen' debate, or is that another story altogether?

Thanks in advance........Terry
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#14 RUDD

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 11:12 PM

terryk:
Gaffer,
Many thanks for taking the time to explain the above. I can understand how 'boilies' can be big business nowadays.

Another question...does the above have any correlation with the 'shelf-life' vs 'fresh/frozen' debate, or is that another story altogether?

Thanks in advance........Terry

Yes it does.
Shelflife boilies have preservitives added.
Frozen boilies don't.

Have you tried that bread that keeps for a week as opposed to normal bread. You know there is crap added as you can taste it.
Carp can detect much more through taste than we can. Therefore they will detect that boilies with additives have additives in them.
RUDD

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#15 Gaffer

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 11:35 PM

RUDD:
Yes it does.
Shelflife boilies have preservitives added.
Frozen boilies don't.

Have you tried that bread that keeps for a week as opposed to normal bread. You know there is crap added as you can taste it.
Carp can detect much more through taste than we can. Therefore they will detect that boilies with additives have additives in them.

I agree.

In addition to Rudd's reply I would add that cheap Semo/soya boilies have very high amounts of flavour, which is also used in an attempt to hide the taste of the preservatives.

You'll find that most cheap boilies that are bright in colour and smell very strongly are "attracter baits".

Having said that, frozen baits bought directly from the manufacturer are not frozen, but are fresh. The last lot of frozen boilies that I bought weren't fresh at all, they were even covered in a white mould by the time I got them after 2 days in transit (meant to be overnight!)! So in that instance I would have been better off with shelf-life boilies!

I've also caught plenty of fish using shelf-life's, but would always prefer to use frozens.

#16 terryk

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 10:25 PM

Rudd/Gaffer,
Thanks guys, your advice is mucho appreciated..

Terry
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#17 bushwacker

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 11:00 PM

I agree with 99% of you say there gaffer, only bit that I don't agree with is the, quote
"The last lot of frozen boilies that I bought weren't fresh at all, they were even covered in a white mould".
That white mould as you call it is usually one of the many different sugars, so there was more than likely nothing wrong with them at all.
Just a small point I know.

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#18 poledark

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 11:55 PM

I second Bushwhackers post re the white "mould".

The guy who supplied me with a very well known frozen bait last year was so confident that he was prepared to lick the "sugars" off the baits if I was really concerned!. I took him at his word and to his credit he did make a start on licking 10kg clean :D

One other relevant point re fishmeals and the digestability in winter...only a very small percentage of the boily may be made up of the oils.. often as low as 5% of the boily.
The fact that they smell strong does not always indicate that there is a lot of fish oil in them.

Had I believed the talk about fishmeals not working in the winter would have meant that I did not catch my first thirty many years ago...and the bait was soaked in neat oil for several days.

I have been using a very potent Choccy Malt, bright yellow boily all winter and caught vert well thankyou...I figured that if I could help the fish smell out and then see my bait then it would increase my catches.

Mind you after getting 15 fish from end of Nov till the 26th Jan I have blanked for 12 sessions, so maybe the fish have turned off them :(

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#19 mpbdsnu

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 12:04 AM

Gaffer:
 they were even covered in a white mould

For anyone that may be interested, try dipping such boilies in a pan of boiling water - white stuff gone Freshens em up nicely :cool:

Sorted!

#20 Gaffer

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 02:01 AM

Hi all,

'Sugars'!

They say you learn something new everyday!

[ 22. February 2004, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Gaffer ]