Steve Coppolo's Vision

[wurzel]

but with conditions like tonight it would have been a fish a cast in the 70ss

 

 

 

paul.

 

arhh I remember!! All you had to do was dip a basket in the water and it would fill up with cod, or am I getting confused with some where else.

[barry luxton]

Cleeclive.

 

Of course some of your prognosis is going to be delayed with this out going government, perhaps 10-15 years with a bit of luck. Bit of balance might be restored for a while. Bit of a slapping for the enviro guys. Personally i like the technical improvements as i think that is possibly the way forward. There is the case of the skippers down the west country who have shown they can more than half the discard with certain sized nets, to include a better return on the fuel used. Then there is this eliminator net being used up the north sea.

 

I wouldn't like to see more power going into the big boys, the split with the scottish and the nffo is a bit of concern so bertie and co might need a bit of a hold back. And as you say the money situation regarding export etc is interesting, i would like to see the home market being first with regards to the rubbish the public are left with to buy.

 

interesting post of yours. thanks victor

[Elton]

Going back to the original subject of this thread, I've just opened today's Angling Times and there's an article by Steve Partner about the future of river fishing that seems to be on a similar theme. i.e. regulatory, uniform, etc.

[Jaffa]

Hi Clive,

 

quote name='cleeclive' date='Jan 4 2010, 10:09 PM' post='3073594']

, but abandoning quota will not stop discarding it will just lead to 'high grading', the dumping of low value species to capitalise on the highest value part of the catch.

 

 

Any chance of an explanation on that point ? IME quotas cause high grading, at least in the white fish fleet.. so how will losing the quota system lead to high grading?

 

Chris

[cleeclive]

Hi Clive,

 

quote name='cleeclive' date='Jan 4 2010, 10:09 PM' post='3073594']

, but abandoning quota will not stop discarding it will just lead to 'high grading', the dumping of low value species to capitalise on the highest value part of the catch.

 

 

 

Any chance of an explanation on that point ? IME quotas cause high grading, at least in the white fish fleet.. so how will losing the quota system lead to high grading?

 

Chris

 

Chris this was not clear in how I presented it, but referring back to Steve's article in BFM he suggests in his simplified reform of fisheries legislation, that no discards should be allowed and that fishermen would not be paid for the landings of undersized fish. He is under the illusion that selectivity will be resolved by increasing mesh size of codends and selectivity devices in nets. If this was to be adopted as a strategy 'High Grading' the dumping of the non economic part of the catch would surely escalate as fishermen would not carry a part of the catch voluntarily that was of no economic value.

 

The whole selectivity issue is much more complex than he explains in that the appropriate mesh sizes to reease immature cod , whiting & haddock are different for each of the three species. When we start to look at the mix of species found in the SW grounds the problems are even more complex. Trawling in a multi- species fishery creates a whole range of very compey selectivity issues because of fish minimum landing sizes and differing body shapes.

 

In addition to this the changes in fishing vessel design which have lead to a fleet of shelter deck stern trawlers that haul the fish into a bag hatch forad have meant that most trawls have a long parrallel extension in front of the codend. This affects the mesh opening during fishing and introduces its own selectivity challenges for gear technologists.

 

Fisheries management is initially based on science and then becomes influenced by the need for political compromise to allow for the needs of different fisheries. This has lead to a huge document on EU fisheries legislation called the Blue Book, to cover the management needs of fisheries in all of the ICES Areas. Many of these rules have been introduced to solve specific problems as they arose. How one would reform this effectively beggars belief.

 

I hope this clarifies my thinking

 

Clive

[Jaffa]

Chris this was not clear in how I presented it, but referring back to Steve's article in BFM he suggests in his simplified reform of fisheries legislation, that no discards should be allowed and that fishermen would not be paid for the landings of undersized fish. He is under the illusion that selectivity will be resolved by increasing mesh size of codends and selectivity devices in nets. If this was to be adopted as a strategy 'High Grading' the dumping of the non economic part of the catch would surely escalate as fishermen would not carry a part of the catch voluntarily that was of no economic value.

 

 

 

Clive

 

Thanks for that Clive.

 

Chris

[Steve Coppolo]

Chris this was not clear in how I presented it, but referring back to Steve's article in BFM he suggests in his simplified reform of fisheries legislation, that no discards should be allowed and that fishermen would not be paid for the landings of undersized fish. He is under the illusion that selectivity will be resolved by increasing mesh size of codends and selectivity devices in nets. If this was to be adopted as a strategy 'High Grading' the dumping of the non economic part of the catch would surely escalate as fishermen would not carry a part of the catch voluntarily that was of no economic value.

 

Clive

It was a very simplistic scenario, I admit, but the idea behind it was that there would be no discarding allowed. At the moment, it isn't illegal to dump fish. If anything like my simple idea ever came about, it woud depend very much on discarding becoming illegal. Therefore, the high grading you speak of would be illegal. Obviously that would mean policing and enforcing the new rules, but that's a different subject. I wasn't trying to re-write fisheries legislation, Clive, it was just an idea in a fishing magazine.

 

If the quota system is ever going to be scrapped, and I think it should, there will have to be something else. What would you do if you had a blank canvas?

[cleeclive]

Clive

It was a very simplistic scenario, I admit, but the idea behind it was that there would be no discarding allowed. At the moment, it isn't illegal to dump fish. If anything like my simple idea ever came about, it woud depend very much on discarding becoming illegal. Therefore, the high grading you speak of would be illegal. Obviously that would mean policing and enforcing the new rules, but that's a different subject. I wasn't trying to re-write fisheries legislation, Clive, it was just an idea in a fishing magazine.

 

If the quota system is ever going to be scrapped, and I think it should, there will have to be something else. What would you do if you had a blank canvas?

Hi Steve,

 

I appreciate that, and you do a great job with your articles, I just love to have my two penny worth and stir a bit. I used to do it a lot in Fishing News, but having lost touch with commercial fishing a bit over the last few years I am now enjoying getting involved with angling politics from my armchair of course.

 

The fishing industry and its politics is very complex and I worked very closely with it sice around 1972. I was predominately involved in training then laterly managed a few research projects to do with selectivity. I used to be involved with the training of the Fishery Protection squadron and have also had a spell on North Eastern Sea Fisheries Committee. Deep down I have a strong sympathy with the commercial fishing sector but I am also aware of the damage that they have done to resouces and how they can be their own worst enemy at times.

 

It does appear to me that this Angliing Trust brigade are trying to represent too many sectors of angling and will come unstuck on many issues through lack of knowledge and good scientific arguments. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. If ever you want a second opinion on anything you write on commercial fishing in relation to the angling e-mail me (cliveradcliffe@hotmail.com)

 

Cheers

 

Cleeclive

[Steve Coppolo]

Hi Steve,

 

I appreciate that, and you do a great job with your articles, I just love to have my two penny worth and stir a bit. I used to do it a lot in Fishing News, but having lost touch with commercial fishing a bit over the last few years I am now enjoying getting involved with angling politics from my armchair of course.

 

The fishing industry and its politics is very complex and I worked very closely with it sice around 1972. I was predominately involved in training then laterly managed a few research projects to do with selectivity. I used to be involved with the training of the Fishery Protection squadron and have also had a spell on North Eastern Sea Fisheries Committee. Deep down I have a strong sympathy with the commercial fishing sector but I am also aware of the damage that they have done to resouces and how they can be their own worst enemy at times.

 

It does appear to me that this Angliing Trust brigade are trying to represent too many sectors of angling and will come unstuck on many issues through lack of knowledge and good scientific arguments. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. If ever you want a second opinion on anything you write on commercial fishing in relation to the angling e-mail me (cliveradcliffe@hotmail.com)

 

Cheers

 

Cleeclive

 

Cheers Clive.

[cleeclive]

Cheers Clive.

 

I have just read Steves latest vision for 2025 in BFM, absolutely fantastic piece of text, but I do wonder if Steve has some German blood in him, as this would appear to be straigh from a German mind set. I only have one small criticism of this vision!

 

The angler will of course have to undertake a three year training programme at angling school before being allowed to touch a rod and a similar training programme in boat handling with all appropriate licences being issued. This is just how Germany functions at the present time so I am sure it will come as they have always wished to rule Europe.

 

I went on a charter angling boat in Japan some years ago, and that whole experience was incredibly regimented even to the point of the number of pre-prepared bait pieces that were placed at each angling station were exactly the number that were required for the duration of the trip. We were told when to drop our lines and when to lift them up etc. A horrendous experience in reality.

 

Thankfully I am now nearly 60 and won't have to endure too many more years on this planet!

 

Cleeclive