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Big Roach in commercials


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#1 MordenMike

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:47 PM

I have been fishing  a fairly small commercial lake (about 3 acres) which holds some good sized roach to over 2lb+. it holds lots of tench and crucians so winter is the easiest time to target the roach. I have caught them to over the pound or so floatfishing maggot. any ideas on how to sort out the big boys ? i'm thinking legered bread or worm, anyone got a cunning plan for me?



#2 Martin56

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:00 AM

A single Caster with the hook buried inside it or double Caster will often pick out the better fish of most species - Especially big Roach. 

 

Size 16 or 18 - I'm talking the OLD hook sizes here not the Rig type hooks which are bigger.

 

These are Ideal.

 

https://www.googlead...Q9aACCDI&adurl=

 

Also available in Ready Tied. And all sizes.

 

Makes perfect sense to use Red hooks for Red baits IMO.


Edited by Martin56, 10 December 2017 - 12:50 AM.

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#3 Vagabond

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:01 PM

Beware of hybrids !   I used to participate in monthly magazine-feature fish-ins on local commercials,  the resultant feature being published locally .    The magazine editor was an old fishing friend and it was a pleasant day out for free with easy fishing thrown in., 

 

Many of the waters we fished were stiff with roach-bream and roach-rudd hybrids.   I had roach-bream to 4 lb, and roach-rudd  to 3-12    No pure roach over 1-14.

 

Lots of 2lb "roach" were claimed by others - backed up (of course) by the fishery owners concerned.    Over 75 years angling has given me a cynic's view -  Identification is simple.for the wannabes,  any fish with roach in its ancestry is a "true roach" if you or one of your mates has caught it - or if you own the water concerned.   If anyone else has caught it, its a hybrid.   

 

It is my lifetime ambition to catch a 2 lb roach, but so far 1-14 (four times) has been my best.   My editor mate has passed away, and now I almost never fish  commercials unless I am introducing a beginner to angling.   I am that convinced of the absence of true roach over 2 lb from such waters that I spend my money on other things..   Clear rivers and large gravel pits are a better bet, the fishing is more difficult, but at least the quarry is probably present.   If you still want to go the "commercial" route, then you need to be well clued-up on hybrid recognition, but note it is not always as simple as counting fin-rays and lateral-line scales   AN has a few past threads that were useful, but I don't know if they are still  accessible.

 

I have one useful paper re hybrid recognition on file   

 

A molecular approach to detect hybridization between bream Abramis brama, roach Rutlius rutilus and rudd Scardinius erythrophthalmus

P. M. W. Wyatt†, C. S. Pitts† and R. K. Butlin*†   

 

Anyone sufficiently interested, pm me your email address, and I will send you a copy


Edited by Vagabond, 10 December 2017 - 12:05 PM.



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#4 Ken L

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:10 PM

First thing I did when I started reading was to check your location.
I'd love to have access to commercials filled with tench, crucians and decent roach.
All we seem to have is carp and F1's with ripped up mouths and swarms of little rudd and skimmers.
As for avoiding the small fish, casters are a good choice but it's probably more important to avoid maggots or bread based groundbait.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima.  Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullen's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.
Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub. 
Species caught in 2014: Striped catfish. Pacu. Giant gourami. Clown knife fish. Rohu. Siamese carp. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Roach. Bream. Perch. Rainbow trout. Chub. Common Carp, Ide. Brown Trout. Barbel. Mekong catfish. Jullen's golden carp. Alligator gar. Java barb.
Species caught in 2013: Mangrove Jack. Barramundi. Blubberlip snapper. Baracouda. Malabar grouper. Yellowfin Trevally. Chub. Brown Trout. Perch. Roach. Pike. European Eel. Bleak.
Species caught in 2012: Northern whiting. Moray eel. Barramundi. Snakehead murrel. Silver razorbelly minnow. Deccan Mahseer. Malabar mystus. Deccan rita. Spotted Malabar Grouper. Mangrove Jack. Indian sea catfish. Brown Trout. Chub. Perch. Roach. Rudd.
Species caught in 2011: Indian sea catfish. Sardine. Barramundi. Mangrove Jack. Deccan Mahseer. Humpbacked Mahseer. Yellow Fin Trevelly. Giant Trevelly. Chub. Brown Trout. Perch. Pike. Atlantic salmon. Dace. Minnow. Roach. Gudgeon. 
Species caught in 2010: Barramundi. Giant Trevelly. Moray eel. Indian sea catfish. Mangrove Jack. Deccan Mahseer. Humpback Mahseer. Chub. Brown Trout. Perch. Bass. Pike. 
Species caught in 2009: Chub. Perch. Pike. Pacu. Thai Striped Catfish. 
Species caught in 2008: Barramundi. p-i-k-e-y sea bream. Indian sea catfish. Guitarfish. Mangrove Jack. Mahseer. Squid (Not strictly a fish but it took a lure !). Emperor Sweetlip. Black Spot Snapper. Moray eel. Spangled Emperor. Bluecheek silver grunt. Yellow striped emperor. Vanikoro sweeper. Pike. Perch. Brown trout. Chub. Atlantic salmon.


#5 MordenMike

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:18 PM

I understand where you are coming from Vagabond concerning hybrids, but I will worry about that if I get a big 'un. the roach i have caught so far have looked true to me , but I wouldn't know about down to the molecular level.

Casters are a good shout, they do sort out a better stamp of fish.

my biggest problem is that I just enjoy catching fish and watching the float go under and I always find it hard to ignore small and medium sized fish and just sitting it out for the chance of a big one. which is probably why I haven't caught one! I keep intending to be a bit more discerning and next time I will be....maybe

 

 

mike

 



#6 Ken L

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:53 AM

A few years ago there were some guys writing articles in the angling press about the use of scaled down bolt rigs for targeting big roach in gravel pits.

There's no reason why you shouldn't employ the same sort of tactics on a second rod while enjoying catching regularly on the float.


Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima.  Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullen's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.
Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub. 
Species caught in 2014: Striped catfish. Pacu. Giant gourami. Clown knife fish. Rohu. Siamese carp. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Roach. Bream. Perch. Rainbow trout. Chub. Common Carp, Ide. Brown Trout. Barbel. Mekong catfish. Jullen's golden carp. Alligator gar. Java barb.
Species caught in 2013: Mangrove Jack. Barramundi. Blubberlip snapper. Baracouda. Malabar grouper. Yellowfin Trevally. Chub. Brown Trout. Perch. Roach. Pike. European Eel. Bleak.
Species caught in 2012: Northern whiting. Moray eel. Barramundi. Snakehead murrel. Silver razorbelly minnow. Deccan Mahseer. Malabar mystus. Deccan rita. Spotted Malabar Grouper. Mangrove Jack. Indian sea catfish. Brown Trout. Chub. Perch. Roach. Rudd.
Species caught in 2011: Indian sea catfish. Sardine. Barramundi. Mangrove Jack. Deccan Mahseer. Humpbacked Mahseer. Yellow Fin Trevelly. Giant Trevelly. Chub. Brown Trout. Perch. Pike. Atlantic salmon. Dace. Minnow. Roach. Gudgeon. 
Species caught in 2010: Barramundi. Giant Trevelly. Moray eel. Indian sea catfish. Mangrove Jack. Deccan Mahseer. Humpback Mahseer. Chub. Brown Trout. Perch. Bass. Pike. 
Species caught in 2009: Chub. Perch. Pike. Pacu. Thai Striped Catfish. 
Species caught in 2008: Barramundi. p-i-k-e-y sea bream. Indian sea catfish. Guitarfish. Mangrove Jack. Mahseer. Squid (Not strictly a fish but it took a lure !). Emperor Sweetlip. Black Spot Snapper. Moray eel. Spangled Emperor. Bluecheek silver grunt. Yellow striped emperor. Vanikoro sweeper. Pike. Perch. Brown trout. Chub. Atlantic salmon.