Greenpeace

[Guest jay_con]

I eat what I catch and return a few. I buy some fish from the supermarket and think that as they are taking my hard earned cash from me they should at least be able to garuntee the origin of the fish is not a black market.

 

I also echoe what Leon says. I have total respect for the very hardworking fishermen (got to admit these guys have special qualities, up at or before dawn with long working hours in the worst of conditions) so long as they have respect for the rules.

 

[ 10. September 2005, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: @AUTUMN@ ]

[Leon Roskilly]

wurzel:

Hello Leon,

          Can you explain, I quote "There has been fishing over the quota in the Barents sea for years and the state of the stock there is good." FN bottom page 9.

er,

 

Whenever there is concern for stocks, it's traditional for the fishing industry and their sponsers to say 'there's plenty of fish'and to strongly believe that.

 

Time and time again that has preceeded the predicted collapse of the stock!

 

That's why so many people outside of the commercial industry greet such comments with cynicism, even when the spokesman may be right in a particular instance.

 

 

http://www.worldwildlife.org/news/displayP...PR.cfm?prID=111

 

"In June 2003, ICES recommended a full stop in the fishery for coastal cod in the Barents Sea. The stock is now declared to be outside safe biological limits because the SSB is dramatically low and fishing pressure is too high. The stock has declined continuously since 1994, and there seems to be no recovery. ICES urged for a recovery plan, and the Norwegian Government produced a plan that will come into force in May 2004. However, the plan is insufficient for protecting and rebuilding the stock, missing out on important means such as closed areas, time and fishing gear restrictions and further monitoring and research."

 

Tight Lines - leon

[wurzel]

Leon You say

"Time and time again that has preceeded the predicted collapse of the stock!"

so can you name a stock that has totaly collapsed?

[Guest jay_con]

LOL.

 

Before long theyll be making you president of the fisheries propaganda campaign Wurzel. With claims like the one your about to make (if Leon indulges your little game) you are just the man for the job.

[Guest NickInTheNorth]

wurzel, just how far do you want the collapse to be before you declare it total?

 

Stocks are way below a sustainable level for many species already.

[Leon Roskilly]

Depends on what you mean by 'total collapse'

 

If you mean that no individuals of that species exist anywhere (ie extinction) then yes there is some evidence of that over time.

 

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/ubb/ultimatebb...=2;t=005828;p=2

 

"Ecological extinction caused by overfishing precedes all other pervasive human disturbance to coastal ecosystems, including pollution, degradation of water quality, and anthropogenic climate change. Historical abundances of large consumer species were fantastically large in comparison with recent observations. Paleoecological, archaeological, and historical data show that time lags of decades to centuries occurred between the onset of overfishing and consequent changes in ecological communities, because unfished species of similar trophic level assumed the ecological roles of overfished species until they too were overfished or died of epidemic diseases related to overcrowding."

 

But if you mean that a species can no longer be found where once abundant.

 

Where are the North Sea stocks of 'common' skate?

 

And there haven't been any sturgeon caught around this way for some time now (my local club's bailiff's great grandfather (or was that great, great....) used to be a commercial sturgeon fisherman on the Medway!)

 

Many fisheries have been abandoned, at least locally or regionally, because the fish that once sustained them have been overfished.

 

http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/factsheets/e...verfishing.html

 

In Peru, a small fish called the anchoveta was caught in huge numbers to be made into fish meal for animals. In 1970, more than 69,000 tonnes were caught, making it the biggest fishery in the world. One thousand five hundred boats were catching 100,000 tonnes of anchoveta every day. By 1972, the daily yield had risen to 180,000 tonnes! The fishermen ignored warnings from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation that their catches were too big, and when a natural upwelling of warm water entered the normally cool, nutrient-rich waters the anchoveta inhabited, this, combined with a lack of breeding stock in the population was enough to cause the total collapse of the anchoveta fishing industry."

 

 

http://disc.gsfc.nasa.gov/oceancolor/scifo..._boundary.shtml

 

"Despite the high productivity of this region, overfishing caused the total collapse of the Grand Banks cod fishery in the early 1990s."

 

There is just so much literature on fisheries collapses from around the world, I'm not going to keep searching for and listing them!

 

But I suspect that the point that you are going to make Wurzel is that fish stocks often collapse for years, maybe decades, but eventually recover eg herring, meanwhile there is always something else to fish for.

 

But what fishermen often don't realise is that they are often simply 'fishing down the food chain'

 

http://www.fisheries.ubc.ca/publications/n...tjanfeb2000.pdf

 

"The near-constant growth in the worldwide

catch of fish might lead one to think that

global fisheries are in healthy condition. But as

Pauly and his co-authors point out, this

statistic is quite misleading. Looking at the

situation in more depth, they discovered that

the mix of species being caught is changing in

a consistent -- and alarming -- way: On

average, fish taken in recent years are

positioned lower on the food chain than those

captured decades ago. This change probably

reflects a fundamental shift that has taken

place in aquatic ecosystems as people fish out

the most desirable top predators and then

move on to take animals from lower on the

food chain. Because the number of links in this

chain is finite, and because few commercially

attractive species are positioned near the

bottom, Pauly and his colleagues argue that

current practices will lead"

 

So 'thriving' fisheries of haddock and nephrops may simply be another step down that chain (I hope not!)

 

Still, there will always be plenty of crabs to pot.

 

Won't there?

 

 

"For fishermen like Doyle, who used to rely on cod and salmon to make a living, it is the last hope. "They took the salmon licence away and then the cod closed," he says."

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor..._82/?hub=Canada

 

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 10. September 2005, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[Leon Roskilly]

[ 10. September 2005, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[Guest johnfranz]

@AUTUMN@:

At least those guys are honest.

 

Binatone. Ive sat and had a good think about your posts. Im wondering which boat it is you now work on? Are you still a trawlerman or have you retired?? You say you enjoy angling?? Where do you go? Perhaps we will meet up one day at chicken rock? or even Cheese rock?

 

The sandeal article above, have you read it?, is written by a chap Called John Brennan the skipper of Chieftain Charters Whitby (think its ok to mention his name although all past posts about the man seem to have been erased from the site.). Do you know John? and what do you think about his article - A Fair observation or pure speculation???

[Guest johnfranz]

Yes have read the article autumn. I have known john and his family for as long as I can or at least care to remember, I know he has a great knowledge of fishing as the article shows.

And as his success showed when he was in the commercial sector. (Where I know him from)

As for angling mate, I think not that you would ever find me on cheese rock or what ever you want to call it. But I can tell you one place you will never find me and that’s fishing up the banks of the Esk with my spinning rod and large treble hook attached.

[Guest jay_con]

binatone:

But I can tell you one place you will never find me and that’s fishing up the banks of the Esk with my spinning rod and large treble hook attached.

Once again ill have to ask for elaboration, I hope your not suggesting what that sounds like?.

 

Are you still a full time fisherman or part time? or employed elsewhere?

 

[ 10. September 2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: @AUTUMN@ ]