Latest Report outlining DEFRA's future Intentions

[ColinW]

wurzel:

 

How is it possible to empty the sea of fish? and where is your evidence that this is happening.

Glad to see wurzel's comments back to their usual standard. Our evidence is simple. We don't catch any fish any more! If the sea was full of fish as you claim then, just like in the old days, we would be able to catch them off the beaches. I don't care if you can still find cod using your side scan sonars, GPS systems etc. Trawlermen found them in record numbers like that off Newfoundland. The scientists said they were dissappearing, the trawlermen said "We are catching plenty, we don't need scientists telling us what is out there". They aren't catching plenty now, are they?

How is it possible to empty the fish of sea? Well it turns out it's pretty bloody simple. You let greedy bastard trawlermen wreak an environmental disaster on it for their own short term gain.

[wurzel]

Ian, so are rays totaly extinct from Scotland?

Autumn, You and most others can't see any further than cod, no cod then there is no fish. I have always agreed that cod stocks are a fraction of what they used be, its only the reason behind it we differ on,

 

As I said, in this area the, Thames estuary , during Bob cox's early days there were no boats working the off shore banks,today from Ramsgate to lowestoft there is probably 50 boats earning a living from these areas, all catching Skate Smoothhounds Bass and doversole,even a few cod at times, do you think these boats live off fresh air? If all these boats stopped fishing then anglers catches would be the same as they were 40 years ago( except for cod). No, I think its your denial of reality thats the problem.

 

Big cod ,Just a few longliners and lowpowerd small trawlers from here and to the south and there are less cod than at whitby.

 

Elton,You've seen the Merc then(rusty Vito van).

 

The prices of sole bass skate are much the same as they were 15 years ago, cod prices have doubled, but there arn't any, as soon as there is then the price will come down.

Our Sole prices are effected by the exchange rate as most is exported , the value of the pound is to high against the euro at the moment.

Bass prices have been kept down by the effect of the farmed bass on the market.

[wurzel]

Stavey if you mean tuna don't hold your breath because it seems they are back!

[Ian Burrett]

ColinW:

ColinW:

 

How is it possible to empty the sea of fish? and where is your evidence that this is happening.

Glad to see wurzel's comments back to their usual standard. Our evidence is simple. We don't catch any fish any more! If the sea was full of fish as you claim then, just like in the old days, we would be able to catch them off the beaches. I don't care if you can still find cod using your side scan sonars, GPS systems etc. Trawlermen found them in record numbers like that off Newfoundland. The scientists said they were dissappearing, the trawlermen said "We are catching plenty, we don't need scientists telling us what is out there". They aren't catching plenty now, are they?

How is it possible to empty the fish of sea? Well it turns out it's pretty bloody simple. You let greedy bastard trawlermen wreak an environmental disaster on it for their own short term gain.

[Simon Everett]

Folks - the modern fishing fleet is now very much more efficient at hoovering up fish than the old, family run, small boats were.

 

It is EXACTLY the same analogy as has befallen the farmer: Times past (not THAT long ago) our fishing ports were full of small boats, each employed a family or two and kept them in a living. These boats were limited by the amount of fish they could catch by their smal size, numbers were limited to the families that were prepared to fish. In those days farms were family affairs and averaged between 100 acres and 500 acres, especially in livestock areas. Now a viable farm HAS to be 500 acres and many are double that.

 

As boats became larger - some families did well and reinvested into a new, modern, floating electronics laboratory - with massive grants from US (the Government does not give grants WE give grants, the Government has NO money, it is OUR money that they are charged with divvying up).

 

These new boats can catch the tonnage of fish that used to take 15 small boats to catch. They are so efficient that if a shoal of fish shows up on the sonar at 5 miles away - those fish are dead, not most of them, leaving a portion to breed and profligate their species - but ALL OF THEM. Gone, with no pool of spawners to repair the damage - and WE gave the fisherman 90% of the money to build the trawler to wreak this havoc.

 

Much of the blame can be attributed to sea angler apathy over the years (stand by to hear from the 7 that have written letters to their MPs - but not from the remaining 1,499,993 that haven't).

 

We are now starting to stand up and shout ENOUGH, we want OUR stake in the fishery recognised and we want the fishery managed to the benefit of both commercial fishing - targeting species that have little recreational value and we want those sport fish: bass, mullet, tope, spurdog - you fill in the remainder - protected from commercial exploitation at a massive scale and managed PREDOMINANTLY for recreational angling so as to provide MORE, BIGGER fish for us to catch.

 

The current DEFRA movements on this request are being implemented upon the direction of Ben Bradshaw, the Fisheries Minister who is trying to balance the RSA demands for protection of our sporting species witht the requirements of the commercial sector to supply the Nation with fish.

 

This is a MASSIVE result. Never before have Recreational Sea Anglers even been considered in the fisheries policies. Now we are having an effect on how the policies are shaped, yet you say that there is little of benefit in the current proposals to please Sea Anglers - oh yes there is! WE ARE BEING CONSIDERED FOR ONCE!!

 

As Winston Churchill said, "this isn't the end, it isn't even the begining of the end. It is just the end of the begining." NOW we have a recognised position we must use it to shape the future of Sea Angling - probably not for us, but for our children......

 

It beholds ALL sea anglers who are truely concerned (and there lies the rub - most are just content to sit and do nothing) to keep the pressure up. You must write to your MP ON A WEEKLY BASIS, demanding that Recreational Sea Angling be afforded a say in fisheries management policies in direct proportion to the number of participants and the value of the industry - currently about TEN TIMES the value of commercial fishing - then, in time, perhpas we shall see 9 Sea Angling representatives and 1 commercial rep on the SFCs - a complete about turn of events is what we are after. BUT it won't come by sitting on your backside and griping on a forum.

 

If every Sea Angler put in the effort that is expended on replying ONCE to this forum by writing to their MP once a week (not every day) then we would have a HUGE voice.

 

Writing to your MP is the same as making ONE reply on this forum - so go and pick up a pen and a piece of paper and DO IT NOW - then post a reply to say you have done it, maybe you would be good enough to put up on the forum what you have written, so others can be inspired......

[Simon Everett]

Here's my latest to my MP:

 

Dear Janet,

 

last year you kindly gave your support to the efforts to have pair trawling restricted in the Channel for which i am very grateful.

 

We are still trying to protect our finest and most valuable sportfish, the European Sea Bass, and the marine mammals which suffer as a result of commercial exploitation of this valuable resource.

 

May I know call upon you to support the proposed increase in the Minimum Landing Size of bass from the current 36cms (immature fish of about 1lb) to 45cms (still only having spawned once, but now 2lbs-ish in weight).

 

DEFRA are currently drawing up the means to introduce the new minimum landing size and to introduce a closed season whilst the bass spawn, as can be expected the commercial fishing lobby are trying to have these new measures stopped.

 

Recreational Sea Anglers have not had any say in how the publicly owned resource of our sea fish has been managed in the past. It has been competely managed by a closed shop of commercial interests to the detriment of the ecosystem and the environment.

 

The Governments own figures state that the entire fishery landings (2003 -4) were worth about £700 million, but this includes shellfish. The wet fish landings were only worth about £50m of this. The same source states RSA at a value of about £530m - ten times that of the wet fish industry, only RSA is a sustainable use of those fish and the commercial exploitation is decimating our fish stocks.

 

We are only asking for a chance for the bass stocks to re establish by giving the fish a chance to spawn before being scooped up in the vast nets that encircle the shoals of spawning fish - which should be left alone in any case (hence the closed season measure).

 

May I please ask you again for your support, this time for the proposals contained within the Bass Management Plan, the first of which are to be introduced in the current DEFRA plans. You might recall seeing an article in the Parliamentary Monitor on how Best Value of the recreational sea bass can be achieved by designating it as a recreational onl fish - NO commercial landing.

 

The Bass Management Plan may be viewed in full on the website http://www.ukbass.com . It is modelled on the highly successful North American Striped Bass recovery scheme which brought the Striped Bass (a close relative of our bass) back from total collapse of the stocks to where it is now an industry worth $1.4 BILLION annually, on a stretch of coastline equal to that of Devonshire!

 

If we could get the measures contained within the Bass Management Plan instigated then the bass around our coast could become a world class fishery and the bass fishing alone could easily become worth £100m per year from recreatioal angling - bringing a much needed boost to remote, rural coastal areas. Currently Dutch, German, French and Italain anglers visit Ireland for their bass fishing in great numbers because Ireland is ahead of us, having already introduced conservation measures several years ago. Already they are reaping the turism rewards from these very eco friendly measures.

 

Thank you for your time and I hope I can look forward to your support.

 

Yours sincerely,

Simon Everett,

[Guest NickInTheNorth]

Good posts Simon, lets hope a few more folks are inspired to write.

 

One easy way to contact them is via this site:

 

http://www.writetothem.com/

 

can be used to contact MP's MSP's MEP's and Welsh and London Assembly members.

 

And this one looks like it could be good when fully operational:

 

http://www.mysociety.org/ycml/

[wurzel]

Simon, what a load of crap.sorry I have not got time to reply properly.

I will just say these value of fisheries are miles out, for a start the value of the commercial fleet is based on landing prices, by the time it gets to the plate you can multiply it by ten even more if you include the wages of the washeruper at the resturant as you anglers would.

[Guest NickInTheNorth]

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but this is my understanding of how to measure the value to the economy of various activities. In essence the value to the economy is that money which is spent in (and stays in) the UK, which would not be spent but for a particular activity.

 

Therefore the value of fish landed at British ports by British owned registered and operated boats is worth what it is sold for on the local market. In addition the economic benefit will include the services used by those boats such as fuel supplies etc which would not otherwise have been used.

 

To try and then extend that to the wages of the washer up in the restaurant is a nonesense. That wage would be paid regardless of the landing of the fish by a british boat.

 

Contrast that with RSA. The entire industry, tackle, bait, accomodation, charter fees, fuel to get to fishing areas, and even the money spent on beer is probably all money which would not have been spent but for RSA. I know that I spend far more on beers on a weekend fishing trip tha I ever would staying at home.

 

And I guess that if we wanted we could also claim the value of the washer-up in the restaurant as we would not have eaten out if it were not for the fishing trips!

[big_cod]

Simon the defra proposul about closing the fisherie for bass during spawning a great idea the same should be inaffect for cod, its makes sence to let things breed sucessfully but just wait for the backlash.