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Sorry Dave,ain't got a clue what you are talking about. The camera records in 1080 Full HD...fact. I then convert it to mpeg2 for editing (not simple trimming) and make a film using Sony Vegas. What do you mean by "your 10mb file"

Den does your camera have Firewire (i.Link, IEEE 1394) output? You should not be editing in MPEG, you'll lose LOADS of quality doing that. You want to get your shots onto your computer as a uncompressed DV file in an AVI container. Once ALL editing is done then you convert to mpeg.

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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Cory, I upload to the PC via the Sony Handycam station. This goes up as HD (AVCHD). I can then trim and split the HD video, but can't do any more editing.

 

I convert to mpeg2 via the Sony "Picture motion Browser" and make film/add titles etc using Sony Vegas.

 

I can make an HD dvd no problem, but have no player (yet) so the easiest way for me is to trim on the PC and then put it back on the camera and watch via an HDMI link to the TV. Not a problem, I bought a spare hard drive and store my stuff on there, most only take a couple of minutes to put back on camera for viewing.

 

 

Den

Edited by poledark

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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the downloaded file is 10mb Den ,as soon as you use any compression ,change format or convert its no longer HD ,simple logic (and maths) says you cant have an HD film or anything else in any sort of resolution less than at least 1280×1080 x the fps (25 or 30 to see it correctly) .your cam may have an HD sensor but from then on its not HD as the camera automatically compresses ,chops or changes (call it what you like) to save it ,even a direct connection to a pc would result in non HD as HD files are big maybe to big to push through the cable itself if its not HDMI (they are a bottle neck themselves).

 

"An HDTV camera generates a raw video stream of up to 233,280,000 bytes per second. This stream must be compressed if digital TV is to fit in the bandwidth of available TV channels and if movies are to fit on DVDs. Fortunately, video compression is practical because the data in pictures is often redundant in space and time. For example, the sky can be blue across the top of a picture and that blue sky can persist for frame after frame. Also, because of the way the eye works, it is possible to delete some data from video pictures with almost no noticeable degradation in image quality"

 

as you see even HD isnt really HD its messed with and the evidence is for all to see on an HD (1080p) tv looking at a blue ray disk ,look closely and the quality overall is less than a standard dvd.there is a distinct blur from moving to still objects usually in the background.

as i say were a few years off real HD here ,once its captured at 1280×1080 x 50? stored at the same size ,transmitted and received and shown on your tv at the same size (I.E from captured to your eye unchanged from the original ) then you will have HD.at the moment (as mentioned in the quote) huge lumps of data are missing due to the file sizes of HD data only moving objects are captured in any detail (not sure if even those are not compressed).probably this loss of detail is built into the camera itself.

DV AVI (aka DV-AVI) is a type of AVI file where the video has been compressed to conform with DV standards. :rolleyes:

 

mpeg2 is no better

 

"Most video compression is lossy — it operates on the premise that much of the data present before compression is not necessary for achieving good perceptual quality. For example, DVDs use a video coding standard called MPEG-2 that can compress around two hours of video data by 15 to 30 times, while still producing a picture quality that is generally considered high-quality for standard-definition video. Video compression is a tradeoff between disk space, video quality, and the cost of hardware required to decompress the video in a reasonable time. However, if the video is overcompressed in a lossy manner, visible (and sometimes distracting) artifacts can appear."

 

now thats considered just about ok for normal films (as stated above) but for HD then you definitely will get artefacts as i said.you may get higher definition using a HD camera but not HD as such

 

hopefully someone will oblige doing the math to show how big an HD file would be for say one minute of uncompressed footage at the above criteria

 

 

i'm certainly not berating your film ,camera or yourself Den but as with "HD" tellies theres plenty of companies jumping on the "HD" band wagon ,sainsburies are still selling (all but one) low res HD (how can you have low res HD ? ) tv's by the cart load and people are going to be very annoyed when they find out they cant run it at 1080p (even that is mediocre now) or their "HD"player / recorder just upscales (interpolates) its output its not HD at all!!

 

HD is just the new green both mean nothing!!

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

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Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

 

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the downloaded file is 10mb Den ,as soon as you use any compression ,change format or convert its no longer HD ,simple logic (and maths) says you cant have an HD film or anything else in any sort of resolution less than at least 1280×1080 x the fps (25 or 30 to see it correctly) .your cam may have an HD sensor but from then on its not HD as the camera automatically compresses ,chops or changes (call it what you like) to save it ,even a direct connection to a pc would result in non HD as HD files are big maybe to big to push through the cable itself if its not HDMI (they are a bottle neck themselves).

 

"An HDTV camera generates a raw video stream of up to 233,280,000 bytes per second. This stream must be compressed if digital TV is to fit in the bandwidth of available TV channels and if movies are to fit on DVDs. Fortunately, video compression is practical because the data in pictures is often redundant in space and time. For example, the sky can be blue across the top of a picture and that blue sky can persist for frame after frame. Also, because of the way the eye works, it is possible to delete some data from video pictures with almost no noticeable degradation in image quality"

 

as you see even HD isnt really HD its messed with and the evidence is for all to see on an HD (1080p) tv looking at a blue ray disk ,look closely and the quality overall is less than a standard dvd.there is a distinct blur from moving to still objects usually in the background.

as i say were a few years off real HD here ,once its captured at 1280×1080 x 50? stored at the same size ,transmitted and received and shown on your tv at the same size (I.E from captured to your eye unchanged from the original ) then you will have HD.at the moment (as mentioned in the quote) huge lumps of data are missing due to the file sizes of HD data only moving objects are captured in any detail (not sure if even those are not compressed).probably this loss of detail is built into the camera itself.

Spot on chesters, if Den is not transferring the file to his PC with iLink and editing in uncompressed then it's not HD. Editing MPEG video is little more than a waste of time, your just adding artefacts to the artefacts. MPEG compression is lossy Den, it works by discarding information the MPEG encoder thinks your eyes won't notice is missing. Every time you edit then recode you lose more. You lose even more again when you upload it to YouTube because the have to recode it to FLV and this is also a lossy technique.

 

Read about how AVCHD works here Den.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

If you want top quality video, even pre HD you need a cam-corder that records onto some kind of TAPE, not memory cards or optical media, that is capable of transferring the data to your pc UNCOMPRESSED (Like a RAW file from a Digital SLR) normally via Firewire (iLink).

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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Sorry about that, was it the way I wrote it? According to my Sony software, I actually do capture in HD and transfer to the PC in HD. My software refers to them as HD and they are called AVCHD files. All this tells me that they are in fact High Definition.

 

If they are not, then there are an awful lot of misguided people who have bought HD cameras (not Hard drive) but "Full HD 1080 AVCHD"

 

Sony have sold many thousands of their models, and no doubt Canon have sold a few as well.

 

The recording format is AVCHD 1080/50i, and that, acording to the experts who review these things and advise us, IS HD.

 

As an example, data taken from the PC, one clip, untouched,......duration 23seconds, 25.4 Mb, 1440x1080, 16x9 ratio. File type AVCHD1080i, video codec AVC

 

Dave, the version you see on utube bears no relationship to the original files, the carp video is actually 361Mb and 5min 35 secs long.

 

Another file reads.. 105Mb , 1min 53 secs..........................and another one, 734Mb, 6min 19secs.

 

 

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Sorry about that, was it the way I wrote it? According to my Sony software, I actually do capture in HD and transfer to the PC in HD. My software refers to them as HD and they are called AVCHD files. All this tells me that they are in fact High Definition.

 

If they are not, then there are an awful lot of misguided people who have bought HD cameras (not Hard drive) but "Full HD 1080 AVCHD"

 

Sony have sold many thousands of their models, and no doubt Canon have sold a few as well.

 

The recording format is AVCHD 1080/50i, and that, acording to the experts who review these things and advise us, IS HD.

 

As an example, data taken from the PC, one clip, untouched,......duration 23seconds, 25.4 Mb, 1440x1080, 16x9 ratio. File type AVCHD1080i, video codec AVC

 

Dave, the version you see on utube bears no relationship to the original files, the carp video is actually 361Mb and 5min 35 secs long.

 

Another file reads.. 105Mb , 1min 53 secs..........................and another one, 734Mb, 6min 19secs.

 

 

 

Den

Den

I am going to visit a friend tomorrow who knows infinitely more about this topic than I do. IT and Telecomms is my bread and butter not video editing. My mate teaches this stuff to people who go off to work for the tv studios and production houses. I'll ask him to heve a read through this thread and then parphrase his thought into English an post something on my return. Could you pleas post or PM me the make and model of your camcorder.

 

In the mean time, this may be worth a scan

 

http://help.youtube.com/support/youtube/bi...12&hl=en-GB

Edited by corydoras

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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Thanks for that Cory :)

 

Camcorder is Sony HDR SR5E 40Gb hard drive Software supplied with camera is Sony Picture Motion Browser. I use Sony Vegas to edit.

 

 

I have no problem with camcorder or any issues with editing etc. I was trying to get to grips with Utube, and make a decision on which format to use for uploading and whether the utube "HD" was worth the extremely long uploading time required. At the moment I need to let it run overnight for the "best" quality.

 

Having uploaded and after Utube have done their thing, they offer an HD option. This is only available if the original upload was of a high enough quality, and naturally I want to use that facility :)

 

My issue is whether it is worth the effort for me, if I can only get 1.6Mb DL and the video is coming down slower than the actual playing time, then I may opt for the option of "watch in High quality".

 

I hope I have made it clear :) :)

 

Looking forward to your reply :)

 

Den

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Hi Den

 

Firstly, be content that your camcorder is laying down video of a much better quality than the much acclaimed 'broadcast quality', offered by terrestrial TV. 'Broadcast quality' has now been superseded by that offered even on budget camcorders.

 

To retain as much of that quality as is possible, download your material and straight away convert to loss-less AVI.

 

Perform all of your editing in this format.

 

Once complete, convert the edited footage into the format best recommended by your video hosting site, for uploading purposes.

 

I now use Vimeo, their preferred format being Quicktime H.264. Have a look for the help section on Youtube, I'm sure they will have their favoured upload format and bit-rate settings etc. listed somewhere.

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SByte, I shall look into that option,

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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That is just about what my mate said Den. If you want true professional broadcast quality HD Video you need a HDV camcorder. These are priced in four or five digits and out of the range of most consumers.

Edited by corydoras

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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