Sign language on the BBC

[kleinboet]

Alan, I am a layman - can you pleas explain why it was possible to put subtitles on 888, yet not possible to put signing on the same system on say 777 or even split 888 into a choice between subtitling and signing!

[ColinW]

Alan, I am a layman - can you pleas explain why it was possible to put subtitles on 888, yet not possible to put signing on the same system on say 777 or even split 888 into a choice between subtitling and signing!

 

If something is an optional extra at the receiving end it is just that, "extra". If you had, say, a signer taking a quarter of the screen you'd need 25% extra bandwidth for the channel. Adding subtitles takes hardly any extra bandwidth, because the subtitle display is generated inside the TV set, all that needs to be sent is one byte of data for each character. If the signer is added to the picture at the transmission end then no extra bandwidth is needed.

[jeepster]

Exactly what Colin said

[kleinboet]

So WHY is it "impossible" to make signing elective, as statistics show most people heve LCD - and CRT sets,many of those being HD ready?

Or is it a matter of cost?? I cannot see why the majority HAVE to watch signing on a Sunday when elective signing would make the program clear for non-elective viewers, who woud not have to record the programs through the night (or sit up to watch them!)

Edited March 17, 2009 by kleinboet

[Alan Stubbs]

So WHY is it "impossible" to make signing elective, as statistics show most people heve LCD - and CRT sets,many of those being HD ready?

Or is it a matter of cost?? I cannot see why the majority HAVE to watch signing on a Sunday when elective signing would make the program clear for non-elective viewers, who woud not have to record the programs through the night (or sit up to watch them!)

 

It's also about bandwidth... if a simple text screen is used it requires little bandwidth. Moving images multiply the bandwidth requirement exponentially, and given what I said earlier about the specific requirements of signers - where the same sign used at different speeds and facial expressions have different meanings, it is imperative that adequate bandwith exists to cope with these specific requirements.

 

 

Which is pretty much the same as Jeep and Colin said, with the added explanation of the needs of signers. It's quite important that signing is 'synched' to the pictures the same as a conventional soundtrack. To a deaf person using a language of limited vocabulary, it's really important to see facial expression as they are an integral part of the communication.

[jeepster]

Nothing to do with whether people have LCD, plasma or CRT sets, though reading your post I'm not sure you know what those terms mean (CRT sets can never be HD ready) It's to do with the fact not everybody (yet) has digital TV and even when they do, as have been repeated ad infinitum, it takes more bandwidth than currently is available to show another video stream per channel, you would be placing a massive load on the system, and it's just not ready. the system struggles with the underused 'Red Button' type services> Broadband is a different matter, everything will happen on something like iplayer a lot quicker. As I've said before, and will no doubt have to say again as you never listen to a word anyone says that doesn't agree with what you already think It will happen, but not for a while.........

[kleinboet]

Jeepster - I do listen. I have a problem with what is bandwidth? Everybody keeps bandying it around saying THAT'S why it's impossible!

All I know is that if the teletext on digital TV is the best they can do, then please can we keep the old format!

[jeepster]

Bandwidth is simply the amount of data available for transmission to your sat dish, Freeview aerial or cable box, HD programming requires a huge amount and SD programming is suffering as a result, you can see when Sky or similar pump all their bandwidth into a big football match or premiere movie, the other channels suffer as a result, there's a finite amount of bandwidth and it has to be shared (usually unequally) Have you spent your life pushing things under stones that you don't understand? I appreciate you asking eventually, but it took a while!

[kleinboet]

So that is why teletext just stops halfway through a search and can take up to 10 minutes before it starts again? I have had my HD box changed 4 times with this same problem!!

 

BTW - The reason I don't ask is because some peole come up with smart A**e remarks because you don't know!!

"Have you spent your life pushing things under stones that you don't understand? I appreciate you asking eventually, but it took a while"

Edited March 18, 2009 by kleinboet

[jeepster]

My comment that you so thoughtfully underlined wasn't based on the fact you didn't know something, more the fact that you were too arrogant to ask

 

Of you're not knowing something and being too arrogant to ask for clarification never stopped you arguing the toss did it