Drennan Super Specialist Barbel Eye Size

[lutra]

Exactly what I was going to post. With a bolt rig for tench, the only really important things are the length of the hooklength, which shouldn't really be longer than 4-5", and the sharpness of the hook. Braid, mono, flurocarbon, coated braids - they all work. Especially somewhere like Wingham where the fish aren't pressured.

 

I prefer a soft braid hooklength because I like the fish to be able to easily suck the bait it from any angle, but to be quite honest I doubt it makes any difference! If you do use soft braid, you will also need to hook on a small PVA stocking to stop it tangling.

Have you tried this?

1. The sort 3" hook length that cant reach to tangle around the main line when trying to hit a long cast and gives anything picking up the bait little room or time to work out what its picked up is before it gets hooked.

I never need PVA.

 

I'd try not to get too caught up with riggy stuff. A lot of it is to solve very specific problems. (Or promote sales!)

I'm sorry Anderoo, but i think your rig is the most important thing and worth spending a bit of time on. You can keep the rest of your fancy tackle for me.

[Anderoo]

That's OK Lutra, I don't mind if people disagree with me But I think the basic point is still valid if somebody is a relative 'beginner' (sorry Angly, I don't like that term but I can't think of a better way to put it). Going straight into complicated rigs isn't helpful if you don't know why it's working, or not working.

 

Yes, I have tried all those combinations, and I did go through a very 'riggy' period a few seasons ago. It was interesting but I proved to myself that the only things that mattered in general were that the hook was very sharp, and that the rig didn't tangle. Little tweaks and adjustments were often needed for specific situations, but I needed to be in that situation to work out what change was needed.

 

It's interesting that I get tangles with the soft hooklengths and you don't - maybe it's due to casting style or something similar? If I don't add a little PVA bag it ends up in a terrible mess!

 

I agree that it's important to think carefully about your rig, I hope I didn't sound like I was suggesting otherwise. But I personally don't think many of the bits used in many rigs make any difference at all., and if they do there's often a simpler way to achieve exactly the same effect.

 

I always think to myself - what am I trying to achieve? And then put something together with as little fuss as possible.

 

I am mostly fishing for unpressured fish though, so that may well make a difference.

 

Thinking about it, I reckon float fishing is the most deserving of 'complicated' rigs - shotting patterns and tiny differences certainly do make a difference there!

 

It could well be that I am ignoring all this stuff at great cost of course, maybe I'm due another riggy spell

[Angly]

...a relative 'beginner' (sorry Angly, I don't like that term but I can't think of a better way to put it). G

 

No apology needed, I freely admit, and often point out, that in absolute terms (in fact in any terms at all!) I'm a novice.

[Kappa]

No apology needed, I freely admit, and often point out, that in absolute terms (in fact in any terms at all!) I'm a novice.

 

Angly if you do get a Wingham place I'd be very happy to talk rigs with you! I'm the opposite of Anderoo and as riggy as you can get! I've played around alot with various rigs to present hair rigged maggots and whilst I'm pleased with the latest one I reckon I need more fish to be sure!

 

Part of the problem is I want to fish a mixture of real and fake maggots and rigs such as Martin Bowlers don't work with real maggots.

 

As for thin braid and tangles, I did some tank tests with last seasons' rigs earlier in the year and pretty much any water movement lead to everything ending up in a pile right against the feeder. I would not consider using using braid without PVA. Maybe that is because the braid me and Anderoo use is particularly supple?

 

Rich

[gozzer]

As for thin braid and tangles, I did some tank tests with last seasons' rigs earlier in the year and pretty much any water movement lead to everything ending up in a pile right against the feeder. I would not consider using using braid without PVA. Maybe that is because the braid me and Anderoo use is particularly supple?

 

Rich

 

As you might know, I'm not into 'fancy' rigs, my motto 'as simple as possible.

 

But you're spot on with the above. I've always been surprised how often anglers just think in terms of how well a rig will cast, (important as it is), but never think what actually happens when it reaches the swim. With fish such as tench and bream, the hook can be lifted many times, and end up anywhere within the area the length of tail will allow. Obviously the heavier the hook bait the less the effect.

I believe, at times, that this is when tench in particular like to take the bait, (when it's lifted by the effects of fish movement). I often float fish for tench with the bait set 3-6 ins off the bottom to try and take advantage of this.

 

John.

[lutra]

That's OK Lutra, I don't mind if people disagree with me But I think the basic point is still valid if somebody is a relative 'beginner' (sorry Angly, I don't like that term but I can't think of a better way to put it). Going straight into complicated rigs isn't helpful if you don't know why it's working, or not working.

 

Yes, I have tried all those combinations, and I did go through a very 'riggy' period a few seasons ago. It was interesting but I proved to myself that the only things that mattered in general were that the hook was very sharp, and that the rig didn't tangle. Little tweaks and adjustments were often needed for specific situations, but I needed to be in that situation to work out what change was needed.

 

It's interesting that I get tangles with the soft hooklengths and you don't - maybe it's due to casting style or something similar? If I don't add a little PVA bag it ends up in a terrible mess!

 

I agree that it's important to think carefully about your rig, I hope I didn't sound like I was suggesting otherwise. But I personally don't think many of the bits used in many rigs make any difference at all., and if they do there's often a simpler way to achieve exactly the same effect.

 

I always think to myself - what am I trying to achieve? And then put something together with as little fuss as possible.

 

I am mostly fishing for unpressured fish though, so that may well make a difference.

 

Thinking about it, I reckon float fishing is the most deserving of 'complicated' rigs - shotting patterns and tiny differences certainly do make a difference there!

 

It could well be that I am ignoring all this stuff at great cost of course, maybe I'm due another riggy spell

Good I'm pleased you don't mind me disagreeing as i don't think we are that far apart on this one, I'm no fan of complicated rigs either.

 

I think the good thing about this kind of rig and the method feeder for a beginner is how simple and tangle free it is. Any rod with a bit of back bone will do, be it a barbel rod, soft carp rod or at a push i bet i even have an old 11' spinning rod in the shed i could get this rig 60 yards with. Even bite detection doesn't need to be very fancy, any cheap bite alarm will do with some way of registering a drop back.

 

I would be interested to know in what way your rig ends up in a "terrible mess" Anderoo, Ive used method feeders with short braid hook lengths a lot for years and find it next to impossible to tangle them. The only difference between them and a in-line maggot feeder for me is from time to time you can get the hook caught in one of the holes in the feeder. Maybe another good reason to tape up the holes at the back end of the feeder where it flaps round in flight.

 

The down sides for me of using a PVA stocking to stop it from tangling are if your hook length can still reach your main line it wont be 100% fool proof, it takes time and money and it may even knock a few yards off your casting.

[Kappa]

I would be interested to know in what way your rig ends up in a "terrible mess" Anderoo, Ive used method feeders with short braid hook lengths a lot for years and find it next to impossible to tangle them. The only difference between them and a in-line maggot feeder for me is from time to time you can get the hook caught in one of the holes in the feeder. Maybe another good reason to tape up the holes at the back end of the feeder where it flaps round in flight.

 

I find it happens with a inline lead, part of the problem is the hooklength can fold back and get caught up on the main line. If you are using methods, just because of the sheer size of them this is likely to stop this happening, also with methods you can tuck the hook/braid into the ball to stop tangles.

 

Rich

[gozzer]

I don't use 'bolt/hair rig', so excuse me if this is in common use.

 

I get the impression that one of the problems is the bare hook of a hair rig catching on the feeder or the line above the weight. Wouldn't squeezing a blob of paste/stiff groundbait around the bare hook, help alleviate this problem? The paste/goundbait would dissolve in the swim, leaving the hair rigged bait to do it's job.

 

As I say, apologies if it's already being used.

 

John.

[Anderoo]

I find it happens with a inline lead, part of the problem is the hooklength can fold back and get caught up on the main line. If you are using methods, just because of the sheer size of them this is likely to stop this happening, also with methods you can tuck the hook/braid into the ball to stop tangles.

 

Rich

 

Yes, exactly, it's not a problem with a method feeder but it is with an inline lead. What happens is the hooklength, hook, and hair+bait wraps around the lead and the mainline behind the lead. It doesn't happen every single time, but I tested it a lot and about 75% of the time it tangled badly. With a little PVA bag it never tangles, but as you say it does knock yards of the cast. But it's not a very aerodynamic rig anyway and if I was going for proper distance I'd use something else.

 

With an inline feeder, I'd expect the same thing, plus you have the problem of the hook catching in the feeder holes. So, I'd use a stiffer hooklength for that (mono, probably), as I can't see the point of using a feeder and a PVA bag.

 

Richard actually laughed at my rigs last time we were fishing I have to admit, his rigs were very impressive, like little works of art. And they certainly worked.

 

As for soft hooklengths ending up coiled next to the lead - mine are only 4" long anyway, so the bait can only ever be 4" away from the lead, maximum! I don't mind how close the bait is to the lead. I always check rigs in the margins so I'm happy with them.

 

Last year I had a nice catch of tench, fishing 2 rods with the semi-fixed inline leads and short, soft hooklengths (fake maggots on a hair), and the third rod on a very simple running maggot feeder with longer (12") 8lb mono hooklength with real maggots straight on the hook. Neither rig was any 'better' than the other - it was where in the swim I cast that was important.

 

I think really clever rigs may be useful on pressured waters where the fish have seen it all, but even then I'd say that if you get the location and feeding right, you can catch on pretty much anything.

[Anderoo]

I don't use 'bolt/hair rig', so excuse me if this is in common use.

 

I get the impression that one of the problems is the bare hook of a hair rig catching on the feeder or the line above the weight. Wouldn't squeezing a blob of paste/stiff groundbait around the bare hook, help alleviate this problem? The paste/goundbait would dissolve in the swim, leaving the hair rigged bait to do it's job.

 

As I say, apologies if it's already being used.

 

John.

 

Yes, that would work just fine!