Griff Rhys Jones angers anglers with command to disturb fishermen

[andy_youngs]

Should the canoeists not be seeing if they can negotiate that out of season access for 3/12 of what the anglers pay to fish it the rest of the year?

 

From a practical point of view Steve, it simply wouldn't work. As the law stands at the moment you are supposed to get the prior permission of every landowner on a river before you can canoe down it. Your suggestion extends this notion to 'getting prior permission and then negotiating a price'. This is of course just a thinly vieled way of telling people that they're not allowed to canoe down the river. Even if you managed to identify the hundreds of different landowners involved, most of them would not bother to reply to a letter let alone go the trouble of collecting a 10 pence toll. I think (hope) we've established that if you go down that road then people will simply ignore the law, and canoe down the river anyway.

 

Sure the considerate one's would try to explore outside times when it would disturb you, but without any input from you that's gonna to be kinda difficult.

 

That's the real crux of the issue; the law tells landowners that they have the right to stop people canoeing down the river, but in reality, they don't. Take me for example. I'm posting under my real name. A cursery glance through recent comments will reveal not only where I live, but also that I confirmed publicly in writing that I have recently broken the law by canoeing down a river without getting the prior consent of every landowner. You would think therefore that someone would have prosecuted me ... Guilty As Charged Your Honour. How much more proof do you want? But have I received any writs? Don't make me laugh. The authorities want to encourage recreational canoeing, most landowners simply don't give a ****, and a few anglers get bit hot under the collar.

 

That's why your suggestion won't work, and that's why it's in both of our interests to get some sort of access agreement in place on your local river.

 

Going back to practicalities, what might work is for the EA to make a conditional offer to angling clubs who open up stretches of river to canoe access by improved stocking and river restoration works etc. After all, they will be benifitting from increased revenue from the sale of canoe licenses, and the general taxpayer also contributes substantial funds into thieir coffers so those views need to be taken account of also.

 

It's true that angling clubs often pay substantial fees to landowners, but this is very rarely for 'exclusive' access to the river. It's purely to lease the fishing rights.

 

I think what anglers need to grasp is that mostly, they do not own the river and therefore do not have the right to close the river down to canoeists. One or two mean spirited landowner's might technically have the right to close a river down, but again, the law gives them no proper means to enforce it.

 

At present I think you'll find that canoeists are making real efforts to try and negotiate voluntary access agreements, but their efforts are all too often thwarted by opposition from local angling groups. These angling interests can also be very influential with local landowners, with the result that all sides become hopelessly entrenched.

 

If canoeists and anglers can be persuaded to reach an agreement based purely on environmental considerations / mutual respect, then landowners will be denied a reason for taking sides. I think in the passed there has been a tendancy for angling groups to obstinately deny canoe access, rather than getting around a table and thrashing out a sensible agreement like adults.

[Dick Dastardly]

Andy sounds like youve described the modern society/world in generals problem to me...........

[Dick Dastardly]

Oh and IMO thats the lack of tolerance and incredible selfishness of a lot of mankind.

[Rusty]

I've just watched the first of the series and it was very enjoyable. Didn't see much anti angling propaganda despite a sequence about maintaining Salmon stocks on the Tay, if it was going to be a running theme I would've thought the opportunity would have been taken there. Mind you I suppose p*ssing off wealthy punters prepared to pay thousands to fish a stretch is a bit different to upsetting oiks ledgering for Chub. I'll reserve judgement until I see further instalments.

 

Didn't know that rivers in Scotland are accessible no matter where they flow, a very sensible approach IMO.

[Andy Macfarlane]

Not quite accurate. If the river has an SSSI site or a spawning ground, SEPA will not take kindly to canoeists paddling through these areas

[Dick Dastardly]

Andy are your SEPA pro active then or just as useless as our EA?

[terry t shirt]

Bet that cant canoe past balmoral though???????????

[andy_youngs]

Bet that cant canoe past balmoral though???????????

yeah ok. you're on

[lutra]

yeah ok. you're on

Don't stop and get out on the bank for a pee or you might kiss the floor with some SAS chap sat on your back.

Edited July 27, 2009 by lutra

[andy_youngs]

Not quite accurate. If the river has an SSSI site or a spawning ground, SEPA will not take kindly to canoeists paddling through these areas

Why?

Andy, a river not so many miles away from me has SSSI designation for it's entire length. In fact, it has a higher, European designation than that. It has SAC designation; a 'special area of conservation'. That is because it contains 4 indigenous species which are all endangered: white clawed crayfish, brook lamprey, bullhead and whorl snails.

The EA recently spent a substantial sum of public money on this river creating an artificial environment which favours barbel (a non native species of fish) and then authorised a stocking programme. Barbel eat whorl snails, bullhead, brook lamprey and white clawed crayfish. It's what they live on.

The barbel fishermen then turned around to the canoeists and told them "you must not canoe down the river because you'll be disturbing an SSSI".

I suppose it depends on the reason for the designation, but as far as I'm concerned if a river has SSSI designation then that's generally a good reason to go there, not a reason to stay away.

Edited July 28, 2009 by andy_youngs