Psychic's Mediums & all that jazz

[jeepster]

i know that not all mediums are fakes. i have a strong feeling that some are though........

 

(and thats not a dig at steveh, who i dont know at all, but i take what he says at face value)

[chesters1]

my proof is that its unproven to me ,look at it this way if god (or his minions) want people to believe and end most conflicts in the world fought in his names(s) why doesent he just appear to everyone and produce fear of his wrath ,in a trice the earth would become as one .

yes the old excuse comes up with "he doesent have to " etc or other well used excuses ,if he exists then he must be a vary bad being with the ability to save millions of lives in the blink of an eye putting us on the right path to stop hunger and treat each other as brothers.

similarily your idea of mediumship if you prove without doupt to one and all life exists after death then god must exist so you are supporting in your beliefs that god is a cruel despot using mankind as a mere plaything.

if others can do online reading why hasent my forbears spoken to them and asked them to get intouch with me after all these years both my parents know our address just incase the medium doesent know it .

or is it just bahooey after all ,mediums have to all be fakes if not the consequencies of the afterlife + god is pretty bad for us all ,heaven in the hands of a being so vile as to torture through inaction his creation allow his creations to destroy each other in the most horrific ways known that "heaven" would be hell and all the promisses of higher planes a lie ,just going from a bad earth to a worst heaven and enjoyed in its evilness by him apon all our predessesors at the same time.

 

[ 20. March 2005, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: chesters1 ]

[The Flying Tench]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jim Gibbinson:

[QB]

It is impossible to arrive at the truth by means of debate because believers, by their nature, believe. If asked to defend their beliefs they offer what, to non-believers, sound like insubstantial arguments - ergo, us non-believers remain unconvinced.

 

Even my non-belief is ultimately a belief in that I cannot demonstrate the correctness of what I hold to be true.

QB]

---

Jim, I accept there's an element of truth in what you say, but the fact is people do regularly change their belief because of argument and debate, and being presented with new evidence. With respect to mediumship and also ghosts we've had examples on this thread. The biggest route to people becoming christians in Britain is the Alpha Course, which includes an examination of the historicity of the biblical accounts. Equally, one of the biggest reasons for people abandoning faith is our inability adequately to explain how a good God can allow terrible suffering.

 

It may indeed be true that people are influenced by background and temperament, but thinking and debating are big factors, too. Many of the people I know who have become christians in mid-life would say they were quite sceptical and even cynical before, so you can't put it all down to an inbuilt tendency to believe or otherwise.

[jeepster]

'historicity'

 

got to be a made up word surely!

 

well i spoke too soon! a quick google shows me that historicity is a word, fair and square! ooops

 

[ 20. March 2005, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: jeepster ]

[Jim Gibbinson]

I'll refrain from commenting on the historical accuracy - or otherwise - of the Bible; it's a big subject in its own right.

 

Regarding the main thread - that of the genuineness of mediums, spriritualists etc. - I reiterate my original comment: its proponents are either daft or deluded (or perhaps a combination of both...?)

 

Likewise those with religious beliefs. It's a cliche to say, "I respect your beliefs", but I don't, so it's a platitude I won't offer. I think such beliefs are arrant nonsense, so how can I extend respect to those beliefs? I respect the right of anyone to hold such beliefs - but that is another matter entirely.

 

This is my last contribution to this discussion because the sun is shining, the water is warming-up, carp will soon be patrolling the margins, tench will soon be rolling, and I need to keep a lookout for the first mullet of the year - in short, interesting though the discussion has been, I'll have better things to do with my time than sit here tapping away at a keyboard!

[deanbmw]

quote:

---

original assertion that all mediums are fakes. If this comment is true, as it was someone stating this that started this thread then I respectfully suggest the onus is on those stating this to provide the proof for their stance not the other way round.

 

SteveH [/QB]

---

on starting this thread was i no means out to rubish any meadums or phychics far from it.

the reason i started came about from a number of things stating from something i read i a book (the da vinci code) and listening to Deric Achora on the James Whale show.

To me it just seems that theses days poeple are just more willing to throw money at medums rather than the church. And why not. if they are givinig more value for it then so be it.

But how long will it be be for the church decides to do the same.

Well its not like they havent done it before is it? As right from the church have all ways have jumped on the back of the winning horse from Rome turning to Chritianity from Paganism because "It could be more profitable" and twisting truths and scriptures to suit them, and get more control over the masses to the monks praying for profit, and so on.

But as steveh as pointed out, Spitualist now have their own reconised Church so how long now before the C o E have meadums reading from the pulpit of Catherals all over the land, "Just stick a tenner on the plate please"

By the way as im typing this my wife and friends are just on about going to see another fortune teller, Steveh can ya sort em out or Jeepster can ya get me Degs is phone number.

By the way this have been a brilliant thread and many good points of veiws have come across.

But rememer God's not so differnt from the Devil, just that he had a better author. If its good "Its a miracle", if its bad "He works in mysterious ways"

[SteveH]

Dean, at the risk of being seen as a hypocrite, I would ask your wife and her friends not to go, or at least to insist that a) the sittings are tape recorded so that when none of the predictions come true they have proof for taking out a prosecution under the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951 or that they have the guts if not satisfied with the 'readings' not to pay the reader. I would never go to a fortune teller myself, I believe our own choices make our futures and hence they are constantly evolveing. Mediumship and Psychic 'fortune telling' are two entirely different animals.

 

SteveH

 

[ 21. March 2005, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: SteveH ]

[The Flying Tench]

chesters1:

my proof is that its unproven to me ,look at it this way if god (or his minions) want people to believe and end most conflicts in the world fought in his names(s) why doesent he just appear to everyone and produce fear of his wrath ,in a trice the earth would become as one

Since Jim G doesn't think people on the two sides of the religious divide hear each other, let me just say I accept your argument, Chesters1. It's a variant of the why-does-God-allow-suffering argument, but it's strong. It really gets to me sometimes. In my view there are other arguments the other way, but I'll leave those for now.

[deanbmw]

Cheers Steve I will put it to her..But i know what she'll tell me, lol probley to to tune of "You spend enough money on maggots,ground bait,sweetcorn and lunchon meat and dont catch anything" ya know what their like .

On a lighter note i see ya put ya name down for the fishin at Lodge Pool, Reddich in August.. We gonna catch anything

[SteveH]

My name was put down yes, due mainly to a keylogger my partners son inadvertantly downloaded and installed, thinking he was going to see some video or another, but, I am trying to get one or both of my sons to get some time off work and if they do yes I will be there. Yep loads going to be caught, but thats not from spirit, its just a feelin' in me bones LOL

 

SteveH