So why are big roach still so few and far between?

[Vagabond]

a lot of the big roach disappeared from Norfolk rivers because the mills and sluices were converted into houses, and the resulting change of water flow drastically affected the roach populations.

 

Not just the water flow.

 

The Roller Mill pool on the River Uck used to produce plenty of 12-15 oz dace back in the sixties. Nowhere else on the river were the dace so big. When the mill ceased operation the average size of the millpool dace fell off, so now you would be scratching to find a dace over 3 oz.

 

The water flow has not changed, but the trickle of ground wheat dust into the river has ceased. Whether the dace thrived on the wheat dust itself, or on the food pyramid it generated, is open to conjecture, but the fact remains, the big dace have gone.

 

The same reasons might apply to the Norfolk roach.

[Rusty]

Enough roach would still get through to these same feeds, through sheer numbers alone. Some roach at least, would have gorged on the very same feeds these monster carp and barbel are eating, so where are they

 

That's true, Roach are likely to be present in the same waters as fish which have grown larger (relatively speaking) and have access to the same feeds/baits so you would think the growth potential is there. I'll still hang my hat on their cautious nature and the possibility of them being bullied out by larger fish, it then snowballs as the other fish get bigger and the roach are left to feed on natural foodstuffs. If today's feeds/baits are responsible for other species growing more quickly than they normally would the Roach are a bit down the pecking order.

 

Another theory, they don't have very big mouths in relation to their size so maybe they simply can't eat enough feed to grow quickly?

 

Out of interest has there been 'boom' periods for Roach over the years or have (say) 2lb'ers always been scarce?

[Vagabond]

. I would add perch to his list, and pike. Trout too?

 

 

Hmmm

 

Perch ? There was a thread about a year or two back about perch growing into double figures in Australia.

 

Pike ? I suspect 60 lb pike swim in big Scandinavian lakes, perhaps even in the Baltic Sea. Pike thrive on neglect, one reason why there are few big 'uns in this country - they are overfished.

 

Trout ???? I have just one word to say - B... er no, I mean Ferox

 

Obviously there is a genetic limitation on the eventual size of all fish, but in the case of the three mentioned above, UK "specimen" size is way below their potential.

[lutra]

I was just doing a bit of googling see how our roach record stands up against the world record but couldn't find a world record. Anyone know it?

 

I did find this Scottish roach that i didn't know about.

Edited October 10, 2009 by lutra

[Andy Macfarlane]

What? It says the Fintry Culreuch Castle Loch beat the previous record as written here...

 

The importance of Colin's catch is emphasised by the fact that the existing Scottish record is just 2lbs 11ozs taken by P Russell in 1987 at Strathclyde Stillwater

 

I've seen the previous record beaten myself. My good mate David Friendship caught a 2lb 12oz Roach several years ago from a water that doesn't see large amounts of high nutrient feeds going. In fact, it never sees more than the odd handful of maggots being thrown in. Maybe he should have chapped the fish and claimed the record himself.

 

Incidentally, Fintry is a SCG water and it is regularly fed with groundbaits, boilies, corn, pellets and all manner of high nutrient feeds. I'm not decrying this record by any means. It's a massive fish and the captor deserves the accolade but this fish is not a natural water fish by any stretch of the imagination and I've no doubt the record will come from Fintry again...and again...and again.

 

I want to see a record come from a water that doesn't see barrowloads of feed going in.

 

Now THAT would be something.

 

....Andy...

[Worms]

When I caught my 2lb 1oz roach (about 1976 from the Teme during a bank high winter session with a lobworm as bait....very Mr. Crabtree!) I seem to recall the angling press going into a flap every five minutes (now there's a surprise!) because the roach record had been broken again.....and again......and again. I don't recall the weights but I seem to remember the record went from 2lb something up to three pound and then again etc.

 

At this time of course most match angling was on rivers and, presumably, with barrow loads of hemp, tares, and all the associated bran based groundbaits that used to go into the waters the old roach did quite well. Is the current state of roach (big in stocked pools, small in rivers) just symptomatic of current angling ways?

 

None of the rivers that I've fished have held large stocks of roach but I have heard of some shoals of reasonable sized (1 1/2lb fish) in the lower stretches of the Teme recently.

[CarlandAlex]

Hi Vagabond, was just wondering if you could give us any information on fishing the river uck at the roller mill or indead anywhere else on the river, its the only river we can fish but we dont know muck about it. are you allowed to fish at the roller mill for free? i do hope you can help!!!

[CarlandAlex]

Not just the water flow.

 

The Roller Mill pool on the River Uck used to produce plenty of 12-15 oz dace back in the sixties. Nowhere else on the river were the dace so big. When the mill ceased operation the average size of the millpool dace fell off, so now you would be scratching to find a dace over 3 oz.

 

The water flow has not changed, but the trickle of ground wheat dust into the river has ceased. Whether the dace thrived on the wheat dust itself, or on the food pyramid it generated, is open to conjecture, but the fact remains, the big dace have gone.

 

The same reasons might apply to the Norfolk roach.

 

 

We would love to fish the river uck at the roller mill, could you give us any help with baits rigs and also where to get tickets. Thanks if you can help!!!!!

[Renrag39]

Budgie, I honestly beg to differ, I'm not blowing my own trumpet but I have caught myself a few VERY big Roach, not sure exactly but I would 'guess' (imagine my hands doing the size dance lol) over 2lb, Rudd too, all from the northern broads. I don't know how, I did nothing special tbh but I have a feeling that the real biggies tend to move with Bream as a matter of habit, not on the fringes but right in the shoal itself.

 

Now I can't say how 'pure' the Roach were but to my eye they were bang on 'Roach', no greyness to the fins, no noticeable mouth 'tubularity' (I didn't count scales or fin rays mind).

My point being that I believe, here at least, the larger specimens tend to shoal witn Bream ONLY. Not other 'lesser' Roach. Maybe it is an adaptation and would certainly explain the massive quantities of hybrids found here.

 

I think the problem lies in targeting them specifically from within a shoal of slabs. It can't be done selectively.

 

If you ever come up here Budgie, try it for yourself. I can't guarantee 2lb+ Roach but I can guarantee lots of damn big ones nonetheless, right when you're pulling 4-5lb left, right and centre, the odd 'silver slab' will come out with blazing orange fins. I'm sure Glen/Glyn (sorry mate, I'm crap with names) will concur.

 

On another point, the Yare fish population diminished after Cantley stopped sluicing its waste into the river (fishing was crap around sugar beet time though when you got the orange tides lol), perhaps solidifying Vagabonds point. Best place on the Southern Broads for overall quality now, if not quantity of fish.... Trowse Wastegate... Yep, the sewage outlet!

 

Renrag

[Dick Dastardly]

Budgie, I honestly beg to differ, I'm not blowing my own trumpet but I have caught myself a few VERY big Roach, not sure exactly but I would 'guess' (imagine my hands doing the size dance lol) over 2lb, Rudd too, all from the northern broads. I don't know how, I did nothing special tbh but I have a feeling that the real biggies tend to move with Bream as a matter of habit, not on the fringes but right in the shoal itself.

 

Now I can't say how 'pure' the Roach were but to my eye they were bang on 'Roach', no greyness to the fins, no noticeable mouth 'tubularity' (I didn't count scales or fin rays mind).

My point being that I believe, here at least, the larger specimens tend to shoal witn Bream ONLY. Not other 'lesser' Roach. Maybe it is an adaptation and would certainly explain the massive quantities of hybrids found here.

 

I think the problem lies in targeting them specifically from within a shoal of slabs. It can't be done selectively.

 

If you ever come up here Budgie, try it for yourself. I can't guarantee 2lb+ Roach but I can guarantee lots of damn big ones nonetheless, right when you're pulling 4-5lb left, right and centre, the odd 'silver slab' will come out with blazing orange fins. I'm sure Glen/Glyn (sorry mate, I'm crap with names) will concur.

 

On another point, the Yare fish population diminished after Cantley stopped sluicing its waste into the river (fishing was crap around sugar beet time though when you got the orange tides lol), perhaps solidifying Vagabonds point. Best place on the Southern Broads for overall quality now, if not quantity of fish.... Trowse Wastegate... Yep, the sewage outlet!

 

Renrag

 

 

Will be up that way in a few months as I'm joining Glyn and Kim for their annual Broads boat trip this October.We wont be fishing to serious more a chill out than a hardcore trip! But will have to team up with you sometime for a go for a big roach if you would oblige mate.A 2lb roach is the last specimen really that I would like to get and times running out!