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It must be you causing it then!

 

Seriously though - Every where I go I hear tales of 'lost' big roach. ' they used to be here but died out' - I used to catch lots but haven't seen any for years. That sort of thing. If the hatching rate is still high, and they still get loads at 5oz, what is causing their demise? Or are they there and we can't catch them probably true in my case).

 

So what is it - Perch? Too Small - probably. Pike? Possibly, but there are probably no more of them than now than there were twnety years ago. Exaggeration? Possibly, but they can't all be. Cormorants? But as we know, they would not only target roach. Competition by other fish - might explain some of it. Rivers with barbel that had no barbel before - but not everywhere.

 

Any offers of explanations?

 

I think some explanations are: crayfish eating the eggs; cormorants (roach are an ideal size for them); and silting, lower flow resulting in takeover by bream. But I'm sure you're right that sometimes the better fish are there but some of us can't catch them.

 

One theory I've heard is that you still get roach where there are swans or plenty of dog-walkers to scare off the cormorants. Don't quite see it with the dog walkers cos I thought cormorants did their stuff very early in the morning, but I certainly know of places where those areas are indeed the ones with roach!

john clarke

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I think some explanations are: crayfish eating the eggs; cormorants (roach are an ideal size for them); and silting, lower flow resulting in takeover by bream. But I'm sure you're right that sometimes the better fish are there but some of us can't catch them.

 

One theory I've heard is that you still get roach where there are swans or plenty of dog-walkers to scare off the cormorants. Don't quite see it with the dog walkers cos I thought cormorants did their stuff very early in the morning, but I certainly know of places where those areas are indeed the ones with roach!

 

Think that the Cormorants like most preds do a fair bit of there hunting early doors and as you say that means less chance of them being disturbed by man but the rest of the day on the town stretch`s in Newbury for eg then would you see that many in the day?? ,The marina just off from the White house bit of the canal TAA has some massive ones resident ,Looking round different marinas when we first got the boat for a home for her i got chatting to an old boy fishing of his in that marina and he pulled out his trophy shot album with some very big Roach that looked every bit of 3lbs to me all caught there ,Smaller ones like that [marinas ] could be less susceptible to Cormorant predation maybe?? many will live on there boat and leave well early to go to work in the city for eg helping these places to become a haven for big Roach?? .

Had a day a couple of winters ago on the old marina on the Thames where when snatching bait i couldn't catch any Roach below 10 ozs one after the other all morning ,Not suggesting they only live in these spots but they certainly go there in the winter to escape river bits running high.

Personally think that there are few of the big ones and and maybe they Shoal together in same year /size groups maybe??? not sure face? Steve.

Edited by JV44

We are not putting it back it is a lump now put that curry down and go and get the scales

have I told you abouit the cruise control on my Volvo ,,,,,,,bla bla bla Barder rod has it come yet?? and don`t even start me on Chris Lythe :bleh::icecream:

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Excellent - good link. I'll try and get the entire document from Cambridge and feedback to you all. Eutrophication would indeed fit the bill.

"I want some repairs done to my cooker as it has backfired and burnt my knob off."

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Think that the Cormorants like most preds do a fair bit of there hunting early doors and as you say that means less chance of them being disturbed by man but the rest of the day on the town stretch`s in Newbury for eg then would you see that many in the day?? ,The marina just off from the White house bit of the canal TAA has some massive ones resident ,Looking round different marinas when we first got the boat for a home for her i got chatting to an old boy fishing of his in that marina and he pulled out his trophy shot album with some very big Roach that looked every bit of 3lbs to me all caught there ,Smaller ones like that [marinas ] could be less susceptible to Cormorant predation maybe?? many will live on there boat and leave well early to go to work in the city for eg helping these places to become a haven for big Roach?? .

Had a day a couple of winters ago on the old marina on the Thames where when snatching bait i couldn't catch any Roach below 10 ozs one after the other all morning ,Not suggesting they only live in these spots but they certainly go there in the winter to escape river bits running high.

Personally think that there are few of the big ones and and maybe they Shoal together in same year /size groups maybe??? not sure face? Steve.

 

 

Cormorants hunt by diving and looking up, maybe they dont like diving beneath boats. Certainly the floating pontoons with dangling chains that are moored as duck islands/fish refuges appear to work where cormorants are an issue. Several nature reserves where they ahve done fish size research has indicated that there is a huge hole in fish size classes - loads of large ones, loads of small ones. Everything else is missing. Maybe a Marina has a similar effect. Roach don't like bright light (or so I understand anyway), so as well as the added protection offered by the moored boats, and a refuge from flood water would encourage them to take up residence. Perhaps the lower light levels around the boats would also suit them better.

 

However, I would have thought that the boats would also be the sort of place where pike lurk - what other reason would there be for Steve fishing there?!

"I want some repairs done to my cooker as it has backfired and burnt my knob off."

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Cormorants hunt by diving and looking up, maybe they dont like diving beneath boats. Certainly the floating pontoons with dangling chains that are moored as duck islands/fish refuges appear to work where cormorants are an issue. Several nature reserves where they ahve done fish size research has indicated that there is a huge hole in fish size classes - loads of large ones, loads of small ones. Everything else is missing. Maybe a Marina has a similar effect. Roach don't like bright light (or so I understand anyway), so as well as the added protection offered by the moored boats, and a refuge from flood water would encourage them to take up residence. Perhaps the lower light levels around the boats would also suit them better.

 

However, I would have thought that the boats would also be the sort of place where pike lurk - what other reason would there be for Steve fishing there?!

 

Guilty your honour and big ones along with monster Carp but i would have said the 2 species that could have really turned up something special there were Perch and Chub ,that marina was a massive nursery area for fry all winter when the Thames was in flood and most fish i presume will munch on fry but due to the varying size in there the Perch esp grew massive added to the fact that it was 12` deep off the back of my mooring in normal conditions made for great sport in those conditions and those roach liked it ;) .

Most of the guys fishing a canal for instance try to fish as close to moored boats as poss as they always harbour a big Chub or 2 amongst other fish ,In short as you have said fish seem to like cover over there heads be it just the cover aspect or the lower light levels that it produces .

The other factor that makes marinas popular with all species is people living aboard there boats tend to fire the Lamb rogan/roast Chicken/pasta whatever leftovers over the side and the fish soon switch on to this food source like this fella

 

bluebellsanddory037.jpg

 

Posted before so apologies but shows the stamp of fish that get in there ,very near hand feed tame in there but i bet they get a bit wary when they sortie out onto the main river steve.

We are not putting it back it is a lump now put that curry down and go and get the scales

have I told you abouit the cruise control on my Volvo ,,,,,,,bla bla bla Barder rod has it come yet?? and don`t even start me on Chris Lythe :bleh::icecream:

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Excellent - good link. I'll try and get the entire document from Cambridge and feedback to you all. Eutrophication would indeed fit the bill.

 

Strike a light, I'm glad someone understands it! Yes it would be helpful to have an explanation for non-biologists.

 

Further to my theory about the swans and dog-walkers, there's an article in Anglers Mail about some guys breeding roach to put back into the Hampshire Avon. Apparently they did a survey of where roach were being caught, and 85% had been caught in Christchurch or Salisbury, with almost none in the bits in between. It's not explicit about whether they were all caught in town stretches, as opposed to the edge of the towns, but those are the biggest two towns on the Avon, and that's where the roach are caught. Same with Newbury on th e Kennet. I don't know if the same thing is true as you get into Reading. I think there is evidence that the roach are concentrating in th etown stretches, and the swans and dog-walkers is at least one theory as to why.

john clarke

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