Hunting and Angling.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear All,

 

It would make for interesting video footage to see hunt-sabs take on some of the fishing characters that I have met in and around Liecester. If the event in question is well attended by Liecestershire anglers, might I suggest that the hunt-sabs blow raspberries from the back window of a very fast car.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Nightwing]

Wow.

So, the Huntsabs are perfectly fine with angling, have no desire to see it ended, and only hope to save the cute little fox.

All else is safe, especialy fishing.

We Americans are often accused of naivety in any number of subjects by our European breatheren, maybe rightfully so. But in this arena, I am afraid(for your sake), that it is SOME of you who are being frightfully naive about all this. These people are out to end ALL countryside activities, be it hunting, fishing, farming(livestock), and yes, even pet ownership.

They have chosen hunting simply as the first target of opportunity. One they feel the time is right to attack. They are NOT going to simply hang up their guns as a job well done when(hopefully, more of an "if")they succeed in outlawing hunting, shooting, and stalking(and you can be assured that each will quickly fall in turn should they ban the hunt).

No, when they finish with the shooting sports, the angling sports will be squarely in the crosshairs.

They are in this for the long haul. They are not going to go for a total instant ban on everything, but instead will be happy to cut the rope fiber by fiber, until sufficient numbers of activities have been eliminated to make the whole of the outdoor arena collapes.

Live bait today. Hunting tomorrow. Shooting in 5 years. All of it in 10.

Do a little test. Go to your local library, and get online from a computer there(so as not to allow your email to fall into the "wrong" hands).

Visit any of the major Anti hunting groups. PETA is as good a choice as any, but any will do.

Go to their chat or message boards, and pose as a fellow anti-hunter. But, start a thread on anti-fishing instead.

I hope I don't need to spell out what you will discover, but it will chill you to the core if you are an angler.

Bottom line is, Angling is only another sin to these zelots, one that will have its day on the stone pile, if they have anything to say about it.

You may consider that I am just a Yank, with no business commenting on things happening half a world away.

Maybe you would be right.

But, there are a bunch of us yanks reading threads like this one, and not quite believing what we are seeing.

I implore you. Get over, or just ignore, the minor differences you have.

Unless you do, you will be nearly helpless when they gather at the gates.

[Peter Waller]

Nightwing, your comments are most welcome.

 

We live in a confused society where someone hates, or is intollerant of someone else. On a personal basis I have, in the past, been involved with anti cruelty with such as the Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, R.S.P.C.A. and the anti fur trade movement of the 1960's. The R.S.P.C.A is Britains richest charity whilst the N.S.P.C.A, National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children is well down the league. That says alot about our muddled society doesn't it!

 

I am quite aware of the anti angling faction. Certainly I am awake to them, hence my stance against the C.A. It was started by an American Lawyer as a 'Business' group to protect 'field' sports in the U.K. Call me a cynic, but why should an American lawyer wish to become involved in a 'business group' within the UK? Money money money springs to mind. We need to promote angling within the UK, thats for sure. But to do it on the backs of the CA is not, I'm sure, the way forward. The Hunt Sabs and the CA have a great deal in common. Both are fanatical, both owe their formation to Fox Hunting. They operate at opposing extremes and we unfortunate anglers have been dragged into their fight and we are playing piggy in the middle. Personally I have no wish to be associated with an extreme organisation that, on one hand, supports Fox Hunting with hounds, whilst on the other, is prepared to kill fellow humans in order to persue its aims. Both activities should join bear baiting in the history books.

[Peter Sharpe]

Nightwing, PETA paid us a visit, a couple of years ago, bringing over their supposed media stars, and on every programme they appeared on they were reduced to a laughing stock, (whatever a laughing stock is). I think most of the general public regarded them as hysterical aliens from another planet, and all they succeeded in doing was wasting an enormous amount of their campaign budget.

I think you can compare them to some of the hellfire and brimstone preachers that seem to thrive in America. They are just leeches, relying on gullible and vulnerable supporters to provide them with a very comfortable lifestyle.

[Jim Roper]

Peter Waller:

Nightwing, your comments are most welcome.

 

the C.A. It was started by an American Lawyer

What is his/her name?

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.march-info.org

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/harbourcam.htm

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/beachcam.htm

http://www.searchlineuk.com/FishList.htm

http://www.thisisdorset.net

[Peter Waller]

Jim Roper:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peter Waller:

[qb]Nightwing, your comments are most welcome.

 

the C.A. It was started by an American Lawyer

What is his/her name?

 

Jim Roper

]

---

Evening Jim. I don't have the file at home but Tuesday or Wednesday will see me in an office where I keep the relevant file. I'll let you know then. It was all certainly in the public domain.

 

The comments about PETA and hell fire and brimstone preachers living a cushy lifestyle on the proceeds struck a familiar cord in keeping with my opinion of the CA.

[Jim Roper]

Peter Waller:

The comments about PETA and hell fire and brimstone preachers living a cushy lifestyle on the proceeds struck a familiar cord in keeping with my opinion of the CA.

CA were formerly the British Field Sports Society!

 

Sounds like (from you, Peter) that they might have some american backing but at the rally I went to in Hyde Park, nearly everybody on stage were either British or French. Most of them claimed to be Blair supporters.

 

Amonst many others, Jeremy Irons, David Bellamy, Baroness Mallalieu, Johnny Morris, were all on stage along with Willie Carson, Frederick Forsythe and a lot of frenchmen playing horns.

 

Don't forget IFAW inc. Run by a Brit in America with a big chip on his shoulder, so I'm told. Didn't they give Labour a lot of money last election?

I suppose when the new rules about donations to political parties from abroad are introduced, the money will have to come in via 3rd parties in the form of people like the LACS, just like we're told that Russia donated to Labour in the past through the union movement.

 

Funny thing! Nightwing had never heard of IFAW.

 

You're not worried about the Tories getting donations from the CA are you?

 

After 36 years in the Labour Party, I can't see Anne Mallalieu agreeing to that!

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.march-info.org

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/harbourcam.htm

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/beachcam.htm

http://www.searchlineuk.com/FishList.htm

http://www.thisisdorset.net

[Peter Waller]

Morning Jim. I'll post the potted history of the CA later in the week. My understanding is that the British Field Sports Society, or whatever, amalgamated with the CA, hence 'Alliance'. The CA, effectively, started off as a 'business group' to fund British Field Sports. This was initiated by a US lawyer whose name I forget but I will let you know. Other than money I can't think of any conceivable reason why he should have set up over here when the US has its own 'anti' problems.

 

In the meantime its regatta week up here, plenty of posh 'foredeck floosies' to oggle at as I cast my line.

 

The CA bribing the Tory Party, well, now you do surprise me!! Other than that titbit, concerning the confusing issue of party politics, I'm keeping out of it in this instance. Take care.

 

[ 26. August 2002, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[Dunk Fairley]

it's possible that some anglers are opposed to hunting, because of the "Lah De Dah" attitude of some of those who carry it out.

 

i know and have known several "hunters" over the years. Some have been great, down to earth people, who really understand what they are doing and how it should be carried out. the trouble is, for each of the sensible ones, i've probably met just as many whose understanding of the countryside, can be summed up as negligable. They only hunt, because it can (definately) improve their standing with those in power in rural comunities. It is not uncommon to find that those taking part in hunts, include Land owners (obviously), Local magistrates, Property Developers and leading Members of the Local Parish Councils. If they get to know each other socially, while carrying out an activity that they feel sets them apart from others, it's a bit like an exclusive gentlemens club.

 

these types are the ones which get portrayed on TV and in the media most often. So when your average angler, or other member of the public, sees one, he gets a very poor impression. They (we) then tar the whole Hunting Fraternity with the same brush. They (We) then dislike those who take part, so also dislike the activity.

 

The CA has had and will always have a problem portraying Hunting with hounds as a "People's Sport", when the impression which comes across, is that the type of "People" it attracts, would rather not mix with "oiks" like us.

 

I don't believe many anglers have a problem with Ferreting, Falconry or Rough shooting, all of which involve the prey being killed. This is because they are seen as sports carried out by the working classes. They see Fox hunting, where the hunt is often led by a "snobby" type, as something alien.

 

That's my OWN view of things of course. I've also no problem with working alongside the CA, but not as part of it, to combine efforts against the antis. That being said, I can also appreciatte the opinions of those who wish to stay further detatched. If either path helps angling, it should be appreciated by ALL anglers.

[Jim Roper]

Dunk Fairley:

it's possible that some anglers are opposed to hunting, because of the "Lah De Dah" attitude of some of those who carry it out.

It might seem 'Lah De Dah' to us, but I wish that I could speak as clearly and as fast as they can. Our different dialects, each dropping different parts of speach, can be much more elitist and dividing.

 

quote:i know and have known several "hunters" over the years. Some have been great, down to earth people, who really understand what they are doing and how it should be carried out. the trouble is, for each of the sensible ones, i've probably met just as many whose understanding of the countryside, can be summed up as negligable. .

Don't you think that could be said of anglers?

 

quote:They only hunt, because it can (definately) improve their standing with those in power in rural comunities.

Quite right and those are the people that are hated. An old road worker once said to me as he was cleaning the local toilets in retirement. "They at the top and we at the bottom can get on very well together. Tis they B*****s in between that spoil it all"

 

quote:

It is not uncommon to find that those taking part in hunts, include Land owners (obviously), Local magistrates, Property Developers and leading Members of the Local Parish Councils. If they get to know each other socially, while carrying out an activity that they feel sets them apart from others, it's a bit like an exclusive gentlemens club.I can think of other clubs at different levels that are similar. I expect you can find someone in one of the clubs that cater for the likes of us on £4.32 an hour, that can 'get hold of anything you want at the right price'.

 

quote:these types are the ones which get portrayed on TV and in the media most often. So when your average angler, or other member of the public, sees one, he gets a very poor impression. They (we) then tar the whole Hunting Fraternity with the same brush. They (We) then dislike those who take part, so also dislike the activity.

This is just what happened to pistol shooting. Running up to the vote to ban it, there were clips galore on the telly showing lines of camo-clad rambo types, firing combat-type weapons at man sized targets. Within hours of it being voted on, there was a news item showing someone firing a .22 target pistol at a paper bullseye.

 

One senior policeman was asked why the handgun ban had not resulted in less armed crime. "We didn't expect it to". He said.

 

I bet the anti-hunting people must think the same about what will be the fate of foxes in future. In nature, nothing dies of old age. When something becomes vulnerable, something else eats it. With foxes, all there is to eat them are bacteria and maggots when they get to old and stiff to keep themslves clean. There won't be a vet to put them down if there are no hounds to catch and kill them. There will be a lot more suffering and lingering deaths amongst the fox population if hunting is banned, but fewer people will see it and probably none will bother to get it on film.

 

quote:The CA has had and will always have a problem portraying Hunting with hounds as a "People's Sport", when the impression which comes across, is that the type of "People" it attracts, would rather not mix with "oiks" like us..

The 'newly rich' again!

 

quote:I don't believe many anglers have a problem with Ferreting, Falconry or Rough shooting, all of which involve the prey being killed. This is because they are seen as sports carried out by the working classes. They see Fox hunting, where the hunt is often led by a "snobby" type, as something alien.

Perception again! Cloth cap v top hat!

 

quote:That's my OWN view of things of course. I've also no problem with working alongside the CA, but not as part of it, to combine efforts against the antis. That being said, I can also appreciatte the opinions of those who wish to stay further detatched. If either path helps angling, it should be appreciated by ALL anglers.

See you on Sept 22nd perhaps then?

 

Bums on seats is all that's asked of anglers.

 

Now here's another thought! How expensive could certain sectors of angling get if the people spending their money and time on hunting turned to fishing?

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.march-info.org

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/harbourcam.htm

http://www.weymouth.gov.uk/beachcam.htm

http://www.searchlineuk.com/FishList.htm

http://www.thisisdorset.net

 

[ 26. August 2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Jim Roper ]