When the wind blows

[Vagabond]

A recent thread about gale-force winds had a lot of people resorting to leger or pole on the river when the wind is fierce.

 

Let us imagine you set out to catch roach, dace and whatever else comes along with your trusty centrepin, trotting rod and a set of Avon floats, only to find a gale has sprung up (and its a downstream wind of course) and trotting looks damn near impossible.

 

This is when you need a set of antennae floats, from about 3BB right up to 4SSG. The sort that a previous generation of match-fishers called "Duckers"

 

These are floats of balsa bodies on cane (or similar material) with the body low down on the stem.

 

Now here is a bit of heresy - It doesn't matter that on this hypothetical occasion you have only Avon floats with you. A "ducker" is only an upside-down Avon !

 

So, in this dire emergency , why not put your Avon float on upside down, attached with just a float rubber on the "bottom end" (thats now the red/fluorescent yellow bit) and the stem sticking out of the water ? That stem won't be all that visible, being brown or greenish, which is why next time a gale is forecast you will have bought/made a proper set of antennae floats and perhaps a closed face reel to make things easier still.

 

Lets say a downstream wind means you need a float carrying (say) 4AAA in a six foot flow. Put 3AAA on 4' from the hook, a BB 2' from the hook. and another (the bite-indicating shot) BB about 8-10" from the hook (that spacing will make it easier to cast without a tangle)

That weight will sink the body, leaving the tip of the antennae (or the bottom inch of your upside-down Avon ) showing, and relatively unaffected by the wind. You may or may not decide to sink your line with a small shot a couple of feet above the float.

In a very strong wind, you just use more weight and a bigger antennae float.

 

Strickly speaking, you will not be "trotting" in the sense of controlling the float path by mending the line - perhaps a better term would be "swimming the stream" - the float goes where the current takes it, unaffected by even a downstream wind.

 

You can also use this set-up when casting into a gale on still water - although the undertow will mean it is not really "still" - you can even use the action of the undertow on a bulky bait (like bread flake, say) to trot out against the wind.

[lyn]

Thank you for that tip, will give it a go next time out in the wind.

 

lyn

[gozzer]

Hi Dave, the duckers I have, are made with crow or goose quill, with a cork body set low down. The quill is the 'right' way up, (that is with the buoyant end to the top), this allows a degree of 'holding back' without sinking the float. With a submerged rod tip, and a small back shot above the float, you have more control over the floats progress through the swim. It's ok up to a couple of rod lengths out, if the flow is not too fast.

 

Another method I use is to over shot a float (usually a balsa, sometimes with an insert), and put the top rubber about 1" from the top. Put about two thirds of the floats normal shot capacity directly under the float, and about 6ins from the full depth, I put about half of it's normal capacity, below this I have 18ins to 2ft with a number 6 as a tell tale. All these weights and distribution are subject to the conditions, and will need a bit of fine tuning on the day. I sometimes go up to twice the flats capacity. This lot is fished at a rod length out and held back hard. You then raise the rod and release a few inches of line, before holding hard again. Work your way down you swim, a foot or so at a time. This also works when the river is carrying extra water.

 

I hope all that makes sense, I was going to draw a diagram but my scanner's packed up.

 

John.

[Vagabond]

I really wanted to revive interest in the big duckers as a means of still being able to "swim the stream" a fair way out (without holding back) when the wind is blowing downstream. The remarks about "upside-down Avons" was only half tongue-in-cheek - in an emergency it works.

 

If you really want to hold back, then you can up to a point, but as you say, if you try to hold back with the smaller duckers*, then your range is limited, but thats fine if the fish are within it.

 

With the bigger duckers, you are swimming the stream, not holding back. It is then not usually necessary to add a shot above the float to sink the line - with 3 or 4 swanshot at the business end, and the line attached to bottom end of a 7" float the line will sink itself as you take up the slack.

 

The second method of holding back you suggest is a form of stret-pegging. That again will work well if the fish are not too far out from the bank, and downstream of you - and I understand it perfectly from your very good description - no need for a diagram, 'cos I've used summat like that meesen'

 

*the bodied waggler is very similar to a small ducker, and is really designed for trailing a bottom bait behind it, not for holding back, but then, one could fill a small book on the misuse of the waggler on rivers ! (that should make the waggler boys tick - I'll get my battle bowler....)

Edited February 7, 2011 by Vagabond

[gozzer]

I try to restrict the distance I fish at, to the distance I can feed accurately, especially when loose feeding. In a strong wind a couple of rod lengths is usually the maximum. With heavy groundbait, obviously it's further. The duckers I have are all 5"-6" in length and carry about 2 swan shot. I have some 10" and 12" swan quills I use (waggler style) for more distance.

The form of stret-pegging I use won me a few quid back in my match fishing days. It was especially useful when the conditions were bad, and we were reduced to 'scratching' for bites, although when the fish got feeding, it was almost a bite a chuck at times. Some refuse to believe that fish actually come close to the bank!

 

Good Luck with trying to revive interest in some of the 'older' methods. It's not so bad on AN, but I've tried it elsewhere, and usually got answers with "old fart", "Mr Crabtree", "cat gut" and such in them.

 

John

[Steve Burke]

Excellent stuff, guys!

 

I'd add that if you want to slow the bait down when using a float attached bottom only you can undershot it and fish it overdepth with an appropriate size shot dragging the bottom.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Steve Burke

[watatoad]

ERROR

Edited February 13, 2011 by watatoad

[watatoad]

A recent thread about gale-force winds had a lot of people resorting to leger or pole on the river when the wind is fierce.

 

Let us imagine you set out to catch roach, dace and whatever else comes along with your trusty centrepin, trotting rod and a set of Avon floats, only to find a gale has sprung up (and its a downstream wind of course) and trotting looks damn near impossible.

 

This is when you need a set of antennae floats, from about 3BB right up to 4SSG. The sort that a previous generation of match-fishers called "Duckers"

 

These are floats of balsa bodies on cane (or similar material) with the body low down on the stem.

 

Now here is a bit of heresy - It doesn't matter that on this hypothetical occasion you have only Avon floats with you. A "ducker" is only an upside-down Avon !

 

So, in this dire emergency , why not put your Avon float on upside down, attached with just a float rubber on the "bottom end" (thats now the red/fluorescent yellow bit) and the stem sticking out of the water ? That stem won't be all that visible, being brown or greenish, which is why next time a gale is forecast you will have bought/made a proper set of antennae floats and perhaps a closed face reel to make things easier still.

 

Lets say a downstream wind means you need a float carrying (say) 4AAA in a six foot flow. Put 3AAA on 4' from the hook, a BB 2' from the hook. and another (the bite-indicating shot) BB about 8-10" from the hook (that spacing will make it easier to cast without a tangle)

That weight will sink the body, leaving the tip of the antennae (or the bottom inch of your upside-down Avon ) showing, and relatively unaffected by the wind. You may or may not decide to sink your line with a small shot a couple of feet above the float.

In a very strong wind, you just use more weight and a bigger antennae float.

 

Strickly speaking, you will not be "trotting" in the sense of controlling the float path by mending the line - perhaps a better term would be "swimming the stream" - the float goes where the current takes it, unaffected by even a downstream wind.

 

You can also use this set-up when casting into a gale on still water - although the undertow will mean it is not really "still" - you can even use the action of the undertow on a bulky bait (like bread flake, say) to trot out against the wind.

 

 

Hi Dave, the duckers I have, are made with crow or goose quill, with a cork body set low down. The quill is the 'right' way up, (that is with the buoyant end to the top), this allows a degree of 'holding back' without sinking the float. With a submerged rod tip, and a small back shot above the float, you have more control over the floats progress through the swim. It's ok up to a couple of rod lengths out, if the flow is not too fast.

 

Another method I use is to over shot a float (usually a balsa, sometimes with an insert), and put the top rubber about 1" from the top. Put about two thirds of the floats normal shot capacity directly under the float, and about 6ins from the full depth, I put about half of it's normal capacity, below this I have 18ins to 2ft with a number 6 as a tell tale. All these weights and distribution are subject to the conditions, and will need a bit of fine tuning on the day. I sometimes go up to twice the flats capacity. This lot is fished at a rod length out and held back hard. You then raise the rod and release a few inches of line, before holding hard again. Work your way down you swim, a foot or so at a time. This also works when the river is carrying extra water.

 

I hope all that makes sense, I was going to draw a diagram but my scanner's packed up.

 

John.

 

 

Excellent stuff, guys!

 

I'd add that if you want to slow the bait down when using a float attached bottom only you can undershot it and fish it overdepth with an appropriate size shot dragging the bottom.

 

Some very good bits of advice...To which I will add ALWAYS take a float or two with the possibility of either an upstream or a downstream wind it so often happens and for an additional bit of misuse...take a windbeater float or make some personal version of the ducker or bodied waggler or perhaps an onion or even a long tipped avon and never forget a tub of vaseline and a small bottle of washing up liquid and a bottle of tipp-ex.

 

Nor should you over look the fun that can be had by trying your hand at upstream trotting...Though it may be a little harder than you first think.