Bream at night

[Kappa]

Because if it tangles around your line when its swigging around in the wind and you get a take and your having a kip. Its bye bye rod and fish.

 

This is just pig headed unsubstantiated nonsense - yet again.

 

How many times do you need to told they don't swing about in the wind? I wonder how many times this has happened to those who are using long drops? Never that I have heard of!

 

I just don't understand why you have to slate everything anyone else does? I think using short drops might be an issue for really big bream but if you or anyone else wants to use them I really don't care its their choice.

 

The fact is there really is no convincing argument against using long drops, except they don't look very cool, which I am more than used to. Even if they make no difference at all with telling bites from line bites, what's the problem?

 

Dick

[tincatinca]

When designing the long arm swingers, one of the key issues was resistance to the effects of wind and tow or a combination of both. This can only be really achieved with a rigid arm where sideways movement is contained. This could be achieved by using bearings but with the kit I have got it was easier to use a slot which ensures that the arm is captive at whatever angle. (see below) The result is that they are very stable in wind and with the front and rear adjustable weights, the whole assembly can be tensioned to suit whatever conditions you find and set up with an arm movement anywhere within its arc of movement. The only downside I have found up to now is how the bobbins are mounted on the arm. Originally I had a swinging bobbin but if say there was a severe drop back then a possibility existed that there could be line entanglement but by modifying mounting arrangement of the bobbin head (see below) so that it is fixed has gone a long way towards eliminating the problem. Aside from that they work extremely well. Must add that Andrews and Richards have worked better than mine though as they have put fish on the bank. As far as screamers go, it can be a fairly common occurence with the Tench

 

 

Edited April 16, 2011 by tincatinca

[poledark]

I can be a bit pigheaded as well Richard I would like a quid for every minute I have wasted on special rigs/leads etc. BUT....IT IS ALL GOOD FUN.

 

Those bites you described are what I would call classic bream bites....probably hooked but to stupid to realise and continuing to plod about, maybe even still feeding .......BUT...another BUT, it may end up shaking the hook out,because there is/was, not enough tension to set the hook point. Carp and tench do it, so why not bream? ESPECIALLY SUPER WINGHAM bream :)

 

I think you have to concede that under normal circumstances anyone fishing for bream is usually advised to use short (3 or 4") hooklinks, ignore every thing except a steady coninuous take against either the bending rod top or against the baitrunner. Baitrunner set firmly enough to ensure the hook point pulls home.

 

A combination of all these will hook bream, get one or two factors wrong and missed fish will result.

 

Tincas efforts are admirable, but to my mind way over the top....will you be getting the brass bits plated? Surely should be all stainless, dull old brass is so old hat, and yes, you should steer clear of ball bearings, only a nice pin action will do you can play with them for hours to get them "run in"

 

Just one other point, a bit more serious here, Wingham is not unique, far from it. Most of the lakes I fish have humps and hollows,

bars and troughs. different types of bottom all over the place, thats what gravel pits are like, and an 8lb bream is not that much smaller than a 15lber (dimensions) and will give you similar sorts of liners. As Budgie has commented, if a decent sized bream gets its head down under your line, then you will get a pronounced liner, but I believe that the line will slip off its back when it tightens, or in the case of your long drops it will take a bit more before it tightens.

 

Finally (not really ) If you get the setup right then you should hook your fish, and it won't matter how long or short you bobbins/swingers are, you will catch.

 

Den

Edited April 16, 2011 by poledark

[Dick Dastardly]

If you get the setup right then you should hook your fish, and it won't matter how long or short you bobbins/swingers are, you will catch.

 

Den

 

 

 

Well there's one statement I wouldn't have thought either camp could argue with!

 

I also agree that underwater topography wise Wingham is certainly not unique and exactly the same problems occur at many other venues Ive fished. That's why the way its dealt with is pretty well sussed and standard.

 

As far as I see this whole short/long drop debate it surely comes back to the business of whether you believe a slack or a tight line touching a fish spooks it the most (if at all). Ive seen fish spook off tight lines and not slack and Dens seen the opposite! Now we've both seen what we've seen but why the total opposite? It surely has to be something else that causes this total opposite in reactions? Angling pressure? fashion trends(ie one lake sees more slack lines than tight or vice versa)? Light/water/clarity conditions? or what?

 

As for running v fixed and resistance free re bolt Its strange as if we were talking Tench then my views and experience would be totally in agreement with what Brian says for Bream! But with Bream my experiences differ from his in some areas but not in others! As such I'm still not sold on short drop bolt rig tactics but his input (and that of most others who have contributed) have made me think again about the whole issue and that's never a bad thing. Some things I will keep the same and this thread has just reiterated my reasons for doing so but others I will be looking to change/modify.

 

Incidentally on the tangling of long drop bobbins I have NEVER had a problem with my system. However "my system" uses a 40lb Amnesia Mono cord that is pegged down directly underneath the position the bobbin is on the line. The cord is allways just slightly shorter than the height of the rod (which is set around the height I expect a line bite to just fall short of before it drops back down). In effect this means that the minute I lift the rod the bobbin detaches or in fact often on a proper run. As I keep a distance between my rods the falling bobbin very rarely fouls the rod next to it let alone the one the run is on.

 

I can certainly see (and have seen!) tangling problems if you secure the bottom of the cord to the buzzer bar or on the bank stick.But that's why I don't do it!

[Anderoo]

Those bites you described are what I would call classic bream bites....probably hooked but to stupid to realise and continuing to plod about, maybe even still feeding .......BUT...another BUT, it may end up shaking the hook out,because there is/was, not enough tension to set the hook point. Carp and tench do it, so why not bream? ESPECIALLY SUPER WINGHAM bream :)

 

I think that's right, and you are definitely right about a bream shaking the hook out. It happened to me last season after I had a 'bite' on one rod and I couldn't work out if it was a real bite or liner. There were clearly bream in the swim and I daren't hit it in case it was a liner and I spooked them. Eventually it spat it out and that was that, a great chance gone begging and a serious error of judgement on my part, I got that one completely wrong. The reason I couldn't work out if it was a real bite or not was because I'd decided to put a 4th rod out and I only had 3 sets of long banksticks, so it was on short banksticks and a short drop... (I'm not making all this up to make the theory fit the facts, it's all true).

 

Just one other point, a bit more serious here, Wingham is not unique, far from it. Most of the lakes I fish have humps and hollows,

bars and troughs. different types of bottom all over the place, thats what gravel pits are like, and an 8lb bream is not that much smaller than a 15lber (dimensions) and will give you similar sorts of liners. As Budgie has commented, if a decent sized bream gets its head down under your line, then you will get a pronounced liner, but I believe that the line will slip off its back when it tightens, or in the case of your long drops it will take a bit more before it tightens.

 

Finally (not really ) If you get the setup right then you should hook your fish, and it won't matter how long or short you bobbins/swingers are, you will catch.

 

Yes, all true in theory, but honestly in practice the long drop really does help tell the difference between real bites and liners. I've used both.

[Kappa]

If you get the setup right then you should hook your fish, and it won't matter how long or short you bobbins/swingers are, you will catch.

 

Totally agree Den!

 

Rich

[Barry C]

Ime fairly new to this alarms and bobbins lark so can you tell me whats wrong with monkey climbers.

It seems to me they would eliminate the wind problem.

Is there something inherantly wrong with them or are they just out of fashion?

[lutra]

or if you had read above, you'd know that most members have ways to ensure wind is no issue, e.g. anchored bobbins or swingers.

What are you talking about now Dick? What in that makes you think i didn't know you need to mess about trying to anchoring your long drop bobbins or swingers?

 

This is just pig headed unsubstantiated nonsense - yet again.

Again more sh1t, what are you on? The post was in response to this.

 

"I would just like to say again that I have had liners on a short drop at Wingham that took line off the baitrunner and looked very much like a screaming run!"

 

Didn't you read it?

 

Maybe your experience but not mine. Plus I believe with very short hooklengths you run the risk of the bait not getting into the breams mouth properly for the bolt rig to work. Given the weight of my bobbins there is plenty of tension.... also I thought your experiments showed there needed to be significant tension on the line before even a light bobbins would move?

 

Dick

You've got some experience of big bream on 3" hook length bolt rigs?

 

Ive got a feeling that anything you believe will just be "pig headed unsubstantiated nonsense - yet again".

[lutra]

This is just pig headed unsubstantiated nonsense - yet again.

 

How many times do you need to told they don't swing about in the wind? I wonder how many times this has happened to those who are using long drops? Never that I have heard of!

 

I just don't understand why you have to slate everything anyone else does? I think using short drops might be an issue for really big bream but if you or anyone else wants to use them I really don't care its their choice.

 

The fact is there really is no convincing argument against using long drops, except they don't look very cool, which I am more than used to. Even if they make no difference at all with telling bites from line bites, what's the problem?

 

Dick

[lutra]

I can be a bit pigheaded as well Richard I would like a quid for every minute I have wasted on special rigs/leads etc. BUT....IT IS ALL GOOD FUN.

 

Those bites you described are what I would call classic bream bites....probably hooked but to stupid to realise and continuing to plod about, maybe even still feeding .......BUT...another BUT, it may end up shaking the hook out,because there is/was, not enough tension to set the hook point. Carp and tench do it, so why not bream? ESPECIALLY SUPER WINGHAM bream :)

 

I think you have to concede that under normal circumstances anyone fishing for bream is usually advised to use short (3 or 4") hooklinks, ignore every thing except a steady coninuous take against either the bending rod top or against the baitrunner. Baitrunner set firmly enough to ensure the hook point pulls home.

 

A combination of all these will hook bream, get one or two factors wrong and missed fish will result.

 

Tincas efforts are admirable, but to my mind way over the top....will you be getting the brass bits plated? Surely should be all stainless, dull old brass is so old hat, and yes, you should steer clear of ball bearings, only a nice pin action will do you can play with them for hours to get them "run in"

 

Just one other point, a bit more serious here, Wingham is not unique, far from it. Most of the lakes I fish have humps and hollows,

bars and troughs. different types of bottom all over the place, thats what gravel pits are like, and an 8lb bream is not that much smaller than a 15lber (dimensions) and will give you similar sorts of liners. As Budgie has commented, if a decent sized bream gets its head down under your line, then you will get a pronounced liner, but I believe that the line will slip off its back when it tightens, or in the case of your long drops it will take a bit more before it tightens.

 

Finally (not really ) If you get the setup right then you should hook your fish, and it won't matter how long or short you bobbins/swingers are, you will catch.

 

Den

Yep nice post Den.

 

Always nice to read something written from someone who knows first hand what they are talking about.