Bream at night

[lutra]

Nearly! Ive still got concerns about liners on a short drop spooking fish more than long drop which allows the line bite to "take" relatively slack line during its course. But can see the advantages with the short (or none even) drop with bolt rigs.

Due to the talk about tight lines spooking bream and the fact that i haven't noticed anything about that on the bank side when I've used bobbins set right at the top, Ive been in the garden doing some testing.

 

I set a bait runner and rod up with an empty plastic pop bottle tied on the end and sat it on a couple of bank sticks with a bite alarm and a bobbin on them. I found the the empty bottle hanging from the end of the rod was a very good match weight wise for my bobbin and i could just about set my bobbin well down to show lift. If i poured even a few drops of water in the bottle from a measuring jug i had with water in it, the bobbin lifted and the bottle slipped to the floor.

 

I did the same test 3 more times, but added an extra 10 gram weight to the bobbin each time. The results were a little strange as found each time i added a 10 gram weight to the bobbin it need an extra 20ml of water for the bottle to drop and the bobbin to lift. Doesn't 20ml of water weigh 20 grams? I think there must be some added friction thing going on there.

 

Now just so you follow this the way i think i have. To fish with my bobbin (from first hand on the bank experience) and set it down low with no added weights on it and on a big lake, it would have to be flat calm and with not even a hint of tow going on. A bit of wind and you will need to put a weight on. If the wind gets up a good bit and the tow starts you will need two weights and if its a howler of a day, you may need to put all 3 on.

 

Now the bit of the test that interested me, which was to see how much water was needed to make that bottle drop and the spool on my bait runner turn when the line is straight and bobbin set at the top next to the alarm. The result was a bit surprising as it only took 35ml so i tried again, but the result was the same. The test had been done with the baitrunner drag set so it wasn't doing anything, but that is how I've always fished with it and i am now trying to think why I've never needed to play with it on windy days.

 

Another thing that's got me thinking is even if you can set your bobbin very light, wouldn't a fish hitting the line still feel a lot of resistance as it would be very close to weight and a long way from the very light bobbin?

[tony tinca]

Due to the talk about tight lines spooking bream and the fact that i haven't noticed anything about that on the bank side when I've used bobbins set right at the top, Ive been in the garden doing some testing.

 

I set a bait runner and rod up with an empty plastic pop bottle tied on the end and sat it on a couple of bank sticks with a bite alarm and a bobbin on them. I found the the empty bottle hanging from the end of the rod was a very good match weight wise for my bobbin and i could just about set my bobbin well down to show lift. If i poured even a few drops of water in the bottle from a measuring jug i had with water in it, the bobbin lifted and the bottle slipped to the floor.

 

I did the same test 3 more times, but added an extra 10 gram weight to the bobbin each time. The results were a little strange as found each time i added a 10 gram weight to the bobbin it need an extra 20ml of water for the bottle to drop and the bobbin to lift. Doesn't 20ml of water weigh 20 grams? I think there must be some added friction thing going on there.

 

Now just so you follow this the way i think i have. To fish with my bobbin (from first hand on the bank experience) and set it down low with no added weights on it and on a big lake, it would have to be flat calm and with not even a hint of tow going on. A bit of wind and you will need to put a weight on. If the wind gets up a good bit and the tow starts you will need two weights and if its a howler of a day, you may need to put all 3 on.

 

Now the bit of the test that interested me, which was to see how much water was needed to make that bottle drop and the spool on my bait runner turn when the line is straight and bobbin set at the top next to the alarm. The result was a bit surprising as it only took 35ml so i tried again, but the result was the same. The test had been done with the baitrunner drag set so it wasn't doing anything, but that is how I've always fished with it and i am now trying to think why I've never needed to play with it on windy days.

 

Another thing that's got me thinking is even if you can set your bobbin very light, wouldn't a fish hitting the line still feel a lot of resistance as it would be very close to weight and a long way from the very light bobbin?

 

All this talk about line bites and spooking , wouldnt a backlead take all this out of the equation

[Dick Dastardly]

I really have no doubts that If I were to be fishing Wingham on a regular basis, then I would probably get one or two Den

 

And I (and I suspect most of us who fish Wingham) wouldn't be surprised either! Same goes for any competent angler on here.

 

Please at this point let me make it quite clear that I (nor any of the other Specimen Group members that I know) think that the Wingham bream are any more harder to catch than any other LSD/SB water.Although they definitely behave differently and live a different life style (this is all SB/LSD bream not just Wingham) to other bream the real reason we don't catch them so frequently is purely the lack of them! combine this with the high levels of food present and its surprising we catch any at all! Time is also against us at Wingham where the amount of rod hours that are put in (limited access and small syndicate) are minute compared with say Queenford in its hey day where two rotas meant that the bream (no one fished much for anything else) were all ways being fished for.

 

Also despite there being a wide mix of experience among those who fish the Coarse Lake we certainly don't think we are better bream anglers than any others even if we have caught far bigger bream.We've caught these simply because they are present.Christ we wouldn't be allways on here sounding out everyone for new ideas and suggestions if we thought we knew it all!

 

However even though I understand that those who fish successfully on other waters must wonder what the hell we are playing at and feel that they would surely empty the place if they fished here with their tactics (I certainly thought I would after the fish I had caught before fishing here! and think after over 50 doubles I had a right to!) you can surely see that its going to get up our noses!

 

I'm going to return to the Bream again this season (not bothered/really been able to for 4 years due to health,er not that its any better this year!) I expect to catch a bream but no more than anyone else,Because like everyone else time and lack of bream will be against me.

 

No bait,no method, will really give me an advantage.It wont matter if I use a long or short drop! Nothing that is possible will give me any "edge"...........except maybe one thing that there are no rules banning me using it and I have plenty of experience to draw on to get it from...and that's confidence! To spend hours waiting for one or two chances you need to be confident in what your doing.As such (all though I will obviously play,experiment and adapt) I will not blindly follow others regardless of how successful they have been but instead stick to what has worked for me.It might not be the best or the most efficient but it will give me my confidence back! And I think that's important.

[Tigger]

All this talk about line bites and spooking , wouldnt a backlead take all this out of the equation

 

 

In some waters yes but waters like wingham have lots of bars so your line would only be pinned to the higher tops of the bars. I would imagin the effect of backleads would vary from swim to swim. Budgie and Anderoo amongst a few other wingham regulars would be able to tell you how effective they'd be in wingham.

[Dick Dastardly]

Another thing that's got me thinking is even if you can set your bobbin very light, wouldn't a fish hitting the line still feel a lot of resistance as it would be very close to weight and a long way from the very light bobbin?

Its surprising what you discover when you play around like this isn't it Brian? Even more so when you try it in water where things can change again! Never time wasted though.

 

I know from spending time underwater that leads/weights of any kind are far easily moved and long lengths of line in water can "weigh heavy"/ have far greater pull on the ends (be it the fish or the bobbin end) than you would think. As such Ive often thought the same as well ie what would move first the bobbin or the lead? As the line isn't rigid then I couldn't imagine there would be any leverage advantage so unless the difference between weight and bobbin was huge then surely whichever was nearest to the point of the line bite would be affected more? But we then get back to practical experience,what happens not what should or what we think should.

 

As such like I said the confidence of the "practical experience" has to win. But for debating,learning etc its still fascinating stuff and a big part of why fishing is still so mysterious.....despite what a lot of tackle manufacturers etc would like us to believe!

[Dick Dastardly]

All this talk about line bites and spooking , wouldnt a backlead take all this out of the equation

 

 

Yes and no Tony! If only it was so simple in practice.As Ian says there are so many undulations/bars etc that its very difficult to pin all of the length of your line down and so avoid the fish swimming into it,Add to that that many of us believe that some liners are caused by the bream burrowing under the line near the rig despite it being hard on the bottom.Even with the likes of long lead core leaders, which are now banned, it cant be totally avoided.

 

You just have to do your utmost (Like Brian mentioned) to avoid them or take the other approach of accepting its impossible to completely avoid them and so minimise any possible negative affect they may have, (kind of complete circle back to the two different approaches we've been discussing!)

[tony tinca]

Yes and no Tony! If only it was so simple in practice.As Ian says there are so many undulations/bars etc that its very difficult to pin all of the length of your line down and so avoid the fish swimming into it,Add to that that many of us believe that some liners are caused by the bream burrowing under the line near the rig despite it being hard on the bottom.Even with the likes of long lead core leaders, which are now banned, it cant be totally avoided.

 

You just have to do your utmost (Like Brian mentioned) to avoid them or take the other approach of accepting its impossible to completely avoid them and so minimise any possible negative affect they may have, (kind of complete circle back to the two different approaches we've been discussing!)

 

At places like wingam do you fish a tight line or is it better to have a slack line so it's on the bottom & use a free running set up .

Sorry if this has already been discussed on this thread , I should have been following it really because if I get the chance to be at the fish in I need all the advice I can get

[Anderoo]

Also despite there being a wide mix of experience among those who fish the Coarse Lake we certainly don't think we are better bream anglers than any others even if we have caught far bigger bream.We've caught these simply because they are present.Christ we wouldn't be allways on here sounding out everyone for new ideas and suggestions if we thought we knew it all!

 

well said!

[poledark]

"Said with grin on face" Blimey Budgie, all you do is moan, moan ,moan lack of time, lack of fish. Lack of fish???????????? blimey mate, there are supposed to be about 40 of the buggers in there.......how many do you want....or need? I wish my lake held 40.......mutter, mutter.

 

Den

[Anderoo]

Lutra's experiment backs up something I noticed towards the end of last season. As an experiment I pulled sideways on the line beyond the rod tip to see how much pressure it took to move the swinger up (simulating a line bite). It took quite a lot of pressure! It didn't move the lead though (1.5oz semi-fixed), although I suppose if it had happened nearer the lead it might have?

 

Doing the same thing between the rod rings just beyond the swinger, before the alarm, it needed far less pressure to achieve the same effect. So I concluded it was just friction on the eyes/alarm roller that made it harder.

 

The posts about fishing slack lines or tight lines have got me thinking, because I don't think I know which I fish with - after casting I sink the line and allow it to sink, but then clip on fairly heavy swingers (about the same pull as a bobbin with a 10g weight added at a guess) which tighten it up again. Plus there may be surface drift and/or undertow which would affect the line's tension. So I suspect my lines are usually pretty tight? I try to keep them 'slackish' just to keep the line on or at least near the bottom, but I expect the swinger pulls it up again...

 

Tony, backleads can be used in some swims where the bottom is fairly flat, but in others there's be no point because of all the bars. On tight vs slack lines and what rigs to use, I personally wouldn't worry too much about it! If you can keep your mainline out of the way of fish so much the better simply because if you do get liners you might strike at one and spook the bream. Rigs - and bait - I'm convinced are not worth losing too much sleep over, whatever you are most comfortable/confident with is probably the way to go. Location and feeding are the important bits!