Chub variations

[Phone]

I know you've told me but I've forgetten I guess.

 

How many chub sub species do you have and angle for?

 

All our chub, while they are all minnows, are not in the same or even similar to each other if in a different environment. Chub is a large catagory of fish. Some chub are strictly cereal based consumers and some are not. About the only time someone calls them "chub" is if they are rather exclusive to all other minnows in a particular venue - otherwise they are just "minnows".

 

Phone

[Renrag39]

Just one afaik. The European Chub (Squalius Cephalus). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_chub

 

Renrag

[Steve Walker]

As above, we only ever use the word "chub" to mean one species.

 

Interesting that Fishbase lists Squalius cephalus as definitive rather than Leuciscus cephalus, as all my books do. Same species, different names.

[Phone]

Steve,

 

I committed the cardnial error, didn't check FishBase. There are "lots" of chub, overall aren't there? Maybe we call some minnows chub that aren't really chub? Gasp!

 

Phone

[Ken L]

Two. I've had our native chub as well as the American Creek Chub (Semolitus atromaculatus) whist in New York state.

[Vagabond]

As above, we only ever use the word "chub" to mean one species.

 

Interesting that Fishbase lists Squalius cephalus as definitive rather than Leuciscus cephalus, as all my books do. Same species, different names.

 

Linnaeus, in 1758, called it Cyprinus cephalus.

 

There is supposed to be some sort of rule of "priority" in allocating scientific names to species, but these rules are subject to all sorts of Byzantine-style machinations and skullduggery. Every half-baked taxonomist seeking to attain some sort of immortality tries to "re-classify" some group of organisms so as to contrive an unamed species, name it, and thus get something named by him or her, or better still, name it after a colleague, in the hope that he or she may reciprocate one day. (you are not allowed to name it after yourself). If unsuccessful, they then query the rules.

 

I have a 3-volume set of "Catalog of Fishes" (weighs over 6 lbs ) published by the California Academy of Sciences, which lists every known "scientific" name ever given to fishes. The number of "scientific names" that have been hopefully submitted and ruled invalid is unbelievable!

 

The latest thinking on Cyprinus cephalus, or Squalius cephalus or Leuciscus cephalus is that Maurice Kottelat (1997) - regarded as the guru of European freshwater fish taxonomy, considers the third of those names valid.

 

... and your biology teacher probably told you, in good faith, that the use of "scientific names" was to avoid confusion !!.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Vagabond

[Steve Walker]

... and your biology teacher probably told you, in good faith, that the use of "scientific names" was to avoid confusion !!.

 

 

It's sometimes for valid taxonomic reasons - the rainbow trout is definitely Oncorhynchus and not Salmo, and I dare say that molecular genetics has moved a few species from one genus to another - but I suspect you have the truth of it in far too many cases!

[Vagabond]

It's sometimes for valid taxonomic reasons

 

True enough, but that in its turn often leads to internecine warfare. Sibley and Monroe published a new taxonomy of birds in 1990, based on DNA similarities, which overturned a number of widely-held concepts. It upset quite a few "traditional" taxonomists, and really enraged a few writers of bird guides.

 

There seems to be something about taxonomy that is akin to political differences - instead of "conservatives and liberals" you have "lumpers and splitters". There is another similarity - in both cases, it often seems that the less well-informed an individual is, the more partisan his or her views!

[Vagabond]

All our chub, while they are all minnows

 

That needs translating !

"Minnows" is the general USA term for cyprinids, whereas in Britain we call them "carps".

 

 

I had a quick flip through my copy of Peterson's Guide and counted 37 (yes, thirty-seven) N American cyprinids with the word "chub" in their common name.

 

.....and there are 14 sorts of "dace" in Peterson also.

[Phone]

Vagabond,

 

Thanks for the translation. I thought my gord was leaking. 2 chub?????

 

Phone