Animal Protection

[Guest allibee]

I'm more than happy to enlighten you Graham

 

The overall point is: who made you God in that you feel you can propound on which is the creature more worthy of life?

 

They should both be allowed to live as they have done around the world for a millenia or twenty, coexisting in a cat eats bird eats slug eats plant kind of world they always have

 

Back to the thread

 

PETA and the groups it puppeteers have no credibilty left as their accounts PROVE they spend more on their own publicity than they do on the so called causes they hide behind, a very distinguishable amount more

 

When Jackie Ballard at the RSPCA came to power there she made it clear from the off that she was not only anti angling, but anti everything, so there is nothing new there. Her views echo those of PETA, but still

 

from the RSPCA:

Help update antiquated animal welfare laws by getting along to your local Animal Welfare Bill roadshow this summer. yada yada yada...

 

Bill support

The roadshow kicks off on 2 June in Bath and will be at many major events in England and Wales throughout the summer. Its aim is to drum up support for the bill by ***getting people and their pets to add their hand and pawprints to a petition calling for a new animal welfare law.

 

RSPCA director general Jackie Ballard says: "The roadshows are a great opportunity for the public to find out more about the Animal Welfare Bill, what it will mean to them and also to offer their support for the bill.

 

yada yada blah blah blah

 

 

***Blimey, that's a bit cruel isn't it, making animals perform? Wonder what PETA will make of that?

[Guest sslatter]

allibee: "The overall point is: who made you God in that you feel you can propound on which is the creature more worthy of life?"

 

Well..

 

I see you finally make a "point" after the event, but not before. You never mentioned anything like this before at all..but then how could you? You've only just thought of it..

 

So.. you now like to think I was "playing God", and that I think other animals more worthy of life than others? Have I got that right?

 

To answer that accusation, I totally refute that I ever said or implied that. I just want all our INDIGENOUS wildlife to have a level playing field, which they don't have, due to the extremely selfish actions of those like you who keep cats, and who don't control them in the outdoor environment.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

[Guest allibee]

Have i only just thought of that, or is it what i was saying all along? Everyone else seems to have got the gist

 

Interesting to note you STILL have nothing to add to the thread in question, apart your selfish views on the way the animal kingdom should be run, according to you

[kleinboet]

Graham - As you yourself rightly said "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Do yourself a favour and before you espouse any anti feelings, get your facts right first. I am not going to give you or anybody else a lecture on the origins of domestic cats AND DOGS, but I strongly suggest you do a bit of research as I do NOT want this closed by the moderator because of your ignorance.

[kleinboet]

Right, back to the point. I cannot understand the mentality of these people - the will be after banning all means of transport next. look at all the bugs on a windscreen!! IMHO these people need to be sent to a land that has just been ravaged by locusts, and let them tell the people that it is wrong to kill ANY creature.

 

[ 11. July 2004, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: kleinboet ]

[trent.barbeler]

Dear All,

 

Kev's post was interesting when he said;

 

"Hi just caught an interview on 5 Live with a RSPCA representative. She stated quite clearly that whenever science proves fish can feel pain they will come under the protection of the new legislation. The interviewer kept trying to bring in insects and slugs for a gimmicky angle but I found her last statement to be of the most concern re fish feeling pain."

 

Then Alan came in and said;

 

"As regards the proposed legislation it has yet to make the passage through parliament which is a long and tortuous process and the headlines that start with a bills passage rarely make it to the end.

Legislation if it is to be viable has to be workable and not to threaten the generally law abiding populace. I would be surprised if many of the wilder elements that could affect gardener’s farmers and indeed potentially us got through the committee stage.

 

Doubtless there will be many pairs of eyes scrutinising this bill and bringing pressure to bear on our lawmakers my suggestion to those who have a REAL concern other than to sound off pompously on internet forums is to offer your services to the SAA and be involved in letter writing campaigns to your MP."

 

I have long advocated (in posts made on this site and elsewhere) that the real threat to angling's future will not come from the likes of any crackpot PETA type organisations but more over from within our own UK based organisations and communities. Indeed, the "ban cultures" are now perched upon high branches just waiting for the opportunity to join together. I believe that organisations like the RSPCA, respected within the community as a whole, will form the standard bearer's for such a push against our rights and freedoms. This will come about due to the fact that such organisations get taken over by leaderships of a radical nature hell bent on carrying out their own animal rights agenda's.

 

The real danger of course comes when a political administration such as the one we have presently jump's aboard the "ban cultures" bandwagon because they see that aligning themselves with such issues might win votes from a population that they "assume" will support them!!

 

Another added danger of course from an angling point of view is our own disunity. Added to that, our refusal to align ourselves with other sports and pastimes that are faced with the same threats that angling faces. As such, we are all becoming extremely easy targets if the anti pastime brigades ever get their own act together in a united way.

 

Foxhunting? Anyone notice that as election time draws closer this issue has been placed on the politician’s back burner? The Countryside Alliance for all its criticism within angling has done a sterling job for its own members. So much so that as election time draws near Mr Blair’s mob must surely realise that they run the risk of massive vote losses from the rural community because of their hoped vote catching surge to ban it.

 

I'm sure that most anglers feel they are fully insulated from the ban cultures activities and angling will never get banned in our country? Not so I'm afraid. All it takes is for a government to be elected with similar massive majorities that we have seen in previous years. Governments who's MP's walk into parliament for the first time with hidden personal agenda's. And if anyone doubts this, look into the MP's profiles and see who supports what.

 

From a freedom to choose point of view, and this includes threats to angling, we are loosing the little battles or are not fighting them at all. It is these little battles that give our opponents small victories that spur them on, victories which give them all confidence and belief that their own twisted vision can in fact become a reality.

 

Presently, for all our own disunity, angling remains a bridge too far for the anti-angling forces to move against head on. Our real danger comes when politicians start to listen to these anti-forces and organisations for a vote gaining agenda. This danger is further compounded as all walks of public office become infected with animal rights agendas. Are we being outflanked as our opponents literally creep upon us bit by bit? I think we are. And eventually, we will face an army of united anti-campaigners supported by a population that has become brainwashed piece by piece by clever anti campaigns fought not only on a national basis, but in town halls right across the country.

 

The "ban culture" has arrived within our own domestic government and no matter what party gets into power in the future; it’s sadly here to stay. If English men and women truly want to keep their sport and pastime freedoms, they must put any differences behind them and unite.

 

Alan is right concerning the passage of certain legislation in the UK. But the hand gun legislation saw a particularly smooth passage as I recall? Massive majorities can move very swiftly sometimes.

 

Alan has a point when he also states;

 

"Doubtless there will be many pairs of eyes scrutinising this bill and bringing pressure to bear on our lawmakers my suggestion to those who have a REAL concern other than to sound off pompously on internet forums is to offer your services to the SAA and be involved in letter writing campaigns to your MP."

 

Actually Alan, I write reams of stuff in support of all types of angling related campaigns myself as I bet others do on this very thread? And accusing posters here of "sounding off pompously" is hardly a good way of inviting people to offer their services to the SAA? Is it?

 

Having said that, I will be re-joining the SAA today (founder member don’t you know) to lend my support in financial terms to the efforts being made to protect my own fishing and the fishing of others. That’s if the cheque gets past the castle draw bridge eh Alan?

 

Incidentally Alan, before I used your quote in my post I corrected its spelling mistakes. Now THAT, is “pompous”. (Light humour)

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[kleinboet]

Lee - good post, well written. I personally feel that the U.K. people are about full to overflowing with "fringe" ideas.

We have been inundated with ideas like all competitive sport to be banned in schools, give children the same rights as adults, anything living and breathing MUST be protected at ALL costs etc. I think that these people who are proposing more and more outlandish legislation could, in fact, work against their own organisations.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Klein,

 

Fishing aside for a moment; a perfect example is the ridiculous no smacking proposed legislation being advocated by our MP's. Brings to mind a picture of a Lord of the Flies type society we will live under as kids learn that there's no discipline or punishment that guides them towards membership within a rule abiding society. These crackpots simply think they can throw away thousands of years of retaining civilised law abiding society by taking away all forms of deterrent as our kids grow up. Cods wallop. But the alarming thing is, our government has actually listened to these doctrines knowing damned well that the majority of the country (voters) will be against it!!

 

That’s how out of touch these MP's really are which comfortably brings me back to my previous post. If we have a government, any government, that can seriously propose such lunatic legislation, we face serious trouble as they open No 10 doors to every other crackpot fringe seeking to ban almost everything we have held dear for hundreds of years. How can we as a sport/pastime trust these people? Sooner or later given the nature of governments obsession with fringe agenda's angling "will" come under fire and serious scrutiny by a government listening to people that call for angling to be banned.

 

For this reason, and more besides, I saw the danger coming when I called for angling to have its own umbrella organisation in place which was open to all. This in turn if created would provide the numbers and financial strength to fight such threats effectively.

 

No. I'm not about to bang that drum again but I do believe we should at least now start to think seriously about better ways to unite rank and file anglers and organisations in order to build "castle angling" which would prove to be inpenetrable to all our enemies. Not to mention the good it would do our cherished sport if such a thing was possible?

 

Re-joining the SAA is a start at least. I just can't sit back a watch this government waltz around and court these fringe elements in our society any longer. Sooner or later these people will come for my fishing and I want to be in a position to fight for my fishing freedoms.

 

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[kleinboet]

Lee - I totally agree. My own thoughts are that an umbrella organisation, while it would find it comparatively easy with fresh water organisations, will find it difficult to bring the sea offshore and boat anglers into the fold.

Even funding could be, once we've proved that we are representative, organised by a say, £1.00 levy on the licence and a levy on all sea angling, which would automatically give membership to them, we could speak for angling and, hopefully, solve individual problems.

Unfortunately we have the situation where all the organisations fight AGAINST one another for government funding. (e.g. NFA v BDAA etc.)

[Guest allibee]

----And eventually, we will face an army of united anti-campaigners supported by a population that has become brainwashed piece by piece by clever anti campaigns fought not only on a national basis, but in town halls right across the country.----

 

Which is why all the youth angling initiatives are so very important. Lyn mentioned one and of course there are the others too.

 

Never underestimate the power of a child to brainwash its parent into what he/she wants to be allowed to do/continue doing. Children have a lot more sway with the populus than a bunch of politicians and anti activists ever can.

 

Children really are the future of the sport in so many ways imho.

 

PETA have openly admitted (19.12.2003) that they have always and will always target children in their campaigns so you have to fight fire with fire and *maybe* instead of looking to this group or that for umbrellas or castles, look at where and with whom the future really lies.

 

[ 11. July 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: allibee ]