Animal Protection

[malevans]

Interesting phenomina. Highlight a potential threat to angling of significant magnitude and yes it was predictable, the angling community, at least in part, start arguing and squabbling between themselves. Lets hope the legislation does not turn out to have differing implications between branches of angling, the imploding anglers will be heard on Mars. :mad:

 

"into the valley of death......"

 

Hmmmmmmmm

 

Was there any final conclusion or conscensous on whether the threat is as real as it sounded on TV ? My primary concern is that after all the review and protective measures etc, that somewhere deep in the text, the door will be open to interpretation and the basis for a test case. If the loop hole exists the judges will have little option in terms of the judgemnent given.

 

Actually I concluded that I did not commit a crime after my last post, as catching a Rainbow trout and killing it for food cannot be deemed cruelty, any more than slaughtering a cow. Which means we can look forward to enforced:

 

a) Lettuce based diet and a complete collapse in the Rainbow farming industry. (Good news is salmon farming is taken out at the same time)

Expensive meats as factory methods of farming are made illegal and the costs of preslaughter councelling sessions for the animals kick in.

c) Enforced carp sarnies (for weeks and months if the angler is good) for anyone catching such a fish.

 

Cheers

[frodo_uk]

you know what!! all this talk of natural and unnatural is making my head spin so hows this for an argument?

You don't get more natural than evolution. fact - 99% of all the animals that ever lived on this planet are now extinct. Thats evolution for you .

millions of animals have evolved from the fish in the sea.

One of those animals is man.

Yes we have the highest intelligence on the planet (eligidly). So what!!

An ape can use a stick as a tool to pick ants out of a tree perfectly naturally (no human intervention here at all)

A man can make and use a gun a computer a fishing rod ect ect ...to me its no less nature than the monkey using the stick, our understanding may be higher but there was no body interveening when nature let us evolve that way. like it or not we're all still part of nature and any intervention with the rest of nature is still nature, just the same as a spider "interveens" when it kiils a fly or a killer whale plays with a seal pup (just for fun)and if we all kill ourselves one day well guess what? thats nature for you.

fishing, domestic cats, feral cats, culls,ect ect ---all nature. politians, and the people that make these laws ---nature (backward evolution )

[kleinboet]

Bravo frodo! While we are shouting the odds here, we have taken our eye off the ball. That (well written)thread puts us right back on course!

[monkeyboy]

These new bills are just to clamp down on people who dont look after their pets properly, or people who kick and hit their pets half dead.

As soon as most anglers see in the press an article about animal cruelty they go nuts thinking its all about fishing. I dont think you need to worry so much!

[Leon Roskilly]

Beware!

 

This is the current position in Germany.

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

 

"There is no nationwide fishing law in Germany but 16 different fishing laws for each country of Germany (so you have a fishing law in lower Saxon, you have one in Northrhine-Westfalia, you have one in Bavaria and so on, 16 of it!).

 

As for the question below concerning catch and release, everyone has to pay attention on our animal protection law.

 

Everyone will be punished by this law if an animal is injured or killed or even stressed (fish in a keepnet for instance) unless there is a good reason for doing that.

 

This law is a "Bundesgesetz", a nationwide law (mind the difference to fishing laws!).

 

And if you are sentenced by our animal protection law you have a previous conviction. For instance when a 16 or 17 year old boy is punished by this law he is previously convicted and may hardly get a job for example.

 

So that´s why catch and release in Germany is prohibited.

 

It is not written down in our laws, not in our fishing laws nor in the animal protection law, it is said in general, concerning all animals.

 

Anglers have been sentenced by our judges several times. On the other hand some anglers have been acquitted, after keeping fish in a keepnet.

 

Some fishing laws (Rhineland-Palatinate) include fishing with a keepnet, some don´t.

 

It´s all up to the angler himself how he is handling the keepnet and if it is in accordance with the animal protection law.

 

We as persons in charge for our members in an angling association (VDSF) cannot spring into action but advise caution or say "Don´t release a fish you have caught!"

 

An angler in Germany nowadays could never say: "I didn´t know, that a fish mustn´t be released." Or: "I didn´t know, that I placed my keepnet not in the right way." Or something like that.

 

An angler in Germany is instructed by course during several weeks.

 

He then got a license called "Fischerprüfungsausweis" and the so called "Fischereischein".

 

A German Angler is not allowed to fish without this license (Fischereischein)!

 

This license is awarded by the federal states of Germany.

 

It is considered as expert knowledge for how to treat fish.

 

So if you are accused you cannot tell the judge, that you did not know that it is forbidden to return the fish you just caught."

[Leon Roskilly]

Ben Bradshaw, the Animal Health and Welfare Minister who introduced the bill said:

 

"What this Bill does not do is threaten a gardener who kills a slug or steps on a snail with a £20,000 fine! As a keen gardener, I am a regular drowner of slugs in beer. This Bill applies to vertebrates only and only to vertebrates in the care of man."

 

See

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2004/040714b.htm

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Guest allibee]

purrrr purrrr purrrrr

[monkeyboy]

p.s i dont like cats although kittens make good live baits for dogs.

[Guest allibee]

bet they don't like you either

 

But overall hampsters make the best live pike bait ... or so I'm told ... allegedly

[waterman1013]

Ben Bradshaw claims to be an angler. Does he know that fish are vertebrates?

 

You can read the draft bill at http://www.official-documents.co.uk/docume...2/6252/6252.pdf .

 

The launch document and government statements are not what is in the draft! The draft is badly written and must be amended. The consultation period is ended but the House of Commons Enviroment, Food & rural Affairs Committee will be taking evidence as show below;

 

Request for Written Evidence:

 

All interested parties are invited to submit written evidence which addresses the provisions of the draft Bill. The deadline for the submission of evidence is Wednesday 25 August 2004. Due to time restrictions, late submissions may not be considered by the Committee. Please read closely the guidelines about the format of submissions, set out below.

 

Evidence should be submitted in Word or WordPerfect formats, and should be sent by e-mail to animalwelfarebill@parliament.uk. The body of the e-mail must include a contact name, telephone number and postal address. The e-mail should also make clear who the submission is from.

 

Submissions should be as brief as possible, and certainly no more than 3,000 words. Paragraphs should be numbered for ease of reference, and the document should include a brief executive summary. Those submitting evidence are reminded that evidence should be original work, not previously published or circulated elsewhere. Once submitted no public use should be made of it, but those wishing to publish their evidence before it is published by the Committee are invited to contact the Clerk of the Committee to obtain permission to do so.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oral Evidence Sessions:

 

At this stage, the Committee expects to take oral evidence on the draft Bill during the weeks of 6 and 13 September.

 

Further details will be announced in due course.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Press Notices:

 

14/07/2004 Invitation to submit written evidence

 

Alli and Graham, could you both do angling a favour and take your argument elsewheere for now. This legislation is actually pretty important to the future of our sport. And both of you are disrupting this thread. We all enjoy a verbal battle but pick another time and place, please.

 

Thank you

 

Mike