Animal Protection

[waterman1013]

Allibee

 

Check out my profile. I don't think my members would be too pleased if I were to ask dear old Charlie for any help on angling matters. Angling is still trying to recover from his wonderful letter writing campaign to local papers about cormorants, where he implied we should be culling all piscavorious birds to protect fish for anglers.

 

Many members of the public took him to mean kingfishers and herons, rather than gooseanders. Both the former favourites with most anglers and the public.

 

Between SAA, NFA and the other members of the National Angling Alliance there is plenty of experience at dealing with draft legislation. I did not respond to this thread to find help but to highlight the dangers to all reading this thread of poorly drafted legislation, which, even unintentionally, could lead to problems for anglers going about their lawful business.

 

I appreciate your suggestion but I think we can probably manage this without involving the CA, who are not known for their animal welfare agenda.

[GlennB]

Newt:

 

Do you think that possibly his being a songbird fan and posting to a 'save the songbird' site has anything to do with him blaming raptors for most of the problems.

I was going to say :

"It brings to mind the warnings in posts and articles on A.N. about "managing" pike populations, resulting in dramatic fluctuations in prey/predator balance.

Leave those moors alone and they'll settle down in time." ...

but then had second thoughts.

 

What if the avian predators now had 'backup' resources - via human activity - to see them through hard times? e.g. kitchen waste on landfill sites, worms on ploughed land, KFC leftovers etc. Would this put the birdy prey species at a permanent disadvantage and in danger of local extinction?

 

In angling terms this would be the equivalent of fish scraps being chucked in a lake now and then, enabling the pike to survive low prey levels and distorting the natural population cycles .

 

Just a thought.

[chesters1]

blimey i just thought it meant putting johnies on you dog before taking it for a walk :confused:

[fenboy]

Late joining this thread, hope you don't mind a couple of observations...

 

1. Graham X, what have you got against cats? They are fantastic companions for the old and lonely. I'm neither (well, a bit old I suppose) and I have two. Both neutered females, both have yet to kill a bird or rodent (a bit fierce on insects and balls of wool though).

 

2. Graham X, don't shoot Alibee down in flames unless you know what you're talking about. The domestic cat is descended from the Egyptian cat. The native wild cat is impossible to tame and a distinct species.

 

3. Slug pellets are bad news. I let song thrushes do the work for me on my garden and allotment.

 

4. The biggest current danger to angling is from Labour's nanny state attitude to government. There is indeed a danger of angling becoming illegal through the back door due to ill-thought-out but well-meaning legislation aimed at outlawing cruelty to animals.

Remember, laws aren't only made by government (statute) but by precedent (case law) by judges. A dotty, gin-soaked judge (they do exist) could easily rule that an angler had broken the new law. Then we'd be buggered.

 

5. If angling is outlawed by default (see above), remove the treble hooks from your lures and use them as toys for your cat. They really are great ambush merchants... and much cuddlier than pike.

 

6. Dick Walker was a cat lover.

 

7. Cats aren't indigenous. Nor are carp. Nor are catfish. Nor are zander. Nor are orfe. Nor are ide. Nor are barbel apart from those inhabiting a handful of east-flowing rivers. Eels are illegal immigrants. And sea trout are asylum seekers.

 

8. I'm possibly insane. I blame the world, because it's going mad. This used to be a nice place to live, now it's peopled by nutters who want to change everything I hold dear.

 

9. Grey squirrels are the biggest menace to wild birds in my neck of the woods. They raid nests, kill young and steal food in winter intended for the birds. They are also non-indigenous (or is that indiginous? Too late at night for a spell check)and have destroyed the red squirrel population. But, you know what, I love seeing them in my garden.

 

10. Carp populations have destroyed indigenous populations of coarse fish in the UK. Does that bother you, Graham X?

 

11. This is written tongue in cheek. But the threat of legislation banning angling is very serious. Please don't get sidetracked by knocking pet owners. After all, if it wasn't for cat food the poor carp boys would still be freelining par-boiled potatoes...

[fenboy]

Late joining this thread, hope you don't mind a couple of observations...

 

1. Graham X, what have you got against cats? They are fantastic companions for the old and lonely. I'm neither (well, a bit old I suppose) and I have two. Both neutered females, both have yet to kill a bird or rodent (a bit fierce on insects and balls of wool though).

 

2. Graham X, don't shoot Alibee down in flames unless you know what you're talking about. The domestic cat is descended from the Egyptian cat. The native wild cat is impossible to tame and a distinct species.

 

3. Slug pellets are bad news. I let song thrushes do the work for me on my garden and allotment.

 

4. The biggest current danger to angling is from Labour's nanny state attitude to government. There is indeed a danger of angling becoming illegal through the back door due to ill-thought-out but well-meaning legislation aimed at outlawing cruelty to animals.

Remember, laws aren't only made by government (statute) but by precedent (case law) by judges. A dotty, gin-soaked judge (they do exist) could easily rule that an angler had broken the new law. Then we'd be buggered.

 

5. If angling is outlawed by default (see above), remove the treble hooks from your lures and use them as toys for your cat. They really are great ambush merchants... and much cuddlier than pike.

 

6. Dick Walker was a cat lover.

 

7. Cats aren't indigenous. Nor are carp. Nor are catfish. Nor are zander. Nor are orfe. Nor are ide. Nor are barbel apart from those inhabiting a handful of east-flowing rivers. Eels are illegal immigrants. And sea trout are asylum seekers.

 

8. I'm possibly insane. I blame the world, because it's going mad. This used to be a nice place to live, now it's peopled by nutters who want to change everything I hold dear.

 

9. Grey squirrels are the biggest menace to wild birds in my neck of the woods. They raid nests, kill young and steal food in winter intended for the birds. They are also non-indigenous (or is that indiginous? Too late at night for a spell check)and have destroyed the red squirrel population. But, you know what, I love seeing them in my garden.

 

10. Carp populations have destroyed indigenous populations of coarse fish in the UK. Does that bother you, Graham X?

 

11. This is written tongue in cheek. But the threat of legislation banning angling is very serious. Please don't get sidetracked by knocking pet owners. After all, if it wasn't for cat food the poor carp boys would still be freelining par-boiled potatoes...

[Guest allibee]

But that is the trouble waterman .... there are waaaaaaay too many differing agendas. The JAGB was created to be the voice, but it's still all too fragmented to be heard and taken seriously by the government ... if they did then there would be funding left, right and centre for angling like all the other 'sports' commissions achieve.

 

It was all but impossible for the womens national team to get their promised funding because even though the NFA were behind them, they were just a little squeek. They had to get to the minister themselves to be heard.

 

When and if everyone can stop the in fighting, and come out with a very loud and united voice representing ALL of angling, then will we be heard.

 

You have to admit the government are afraid of the CA. Perhaps it's Charlie that needs educating and taking in hand in the meantime. Give him the ammo and show him where and how to fire it

 

Just a thought

[trent.barbeler]

Dear All,

 

Got to say it, and Mike might feint, I thought Waterman and Fenboys posts (two that is for Fenders) were well, brilliant.

 

They are absolutely spot on concerning the dangers that "will" arise from this bill if allowed to go through un-challenged. And its not just anglers that might suffer if this bill goes through cock-eyed and the anti-everything mob saddle up their horses.

 

Personally, and this is the bit where Mike passes out, I have every confidence of him and his crew (who are they these days?)going over the details with the finest of tooth combes. (not Mikes comb because he doesn't need one. Joke Mike.)

 

Also, between them all in the angling politico's that be, and their mates and their mates mates, they have an awful lot of expertise they can call upon for clarification on all sorts of things. (Aside from catching as many barbel as I do)

 

Is the responce going out perhaps on the SAA website Mike when its finished? I'd like to have a butchers myself if it does.

 

One final thing that I must agree with Fenboy over is what he said;

 

"The native wild cat is impossible to tame and a distinct species."

 

Too bloody right mate. I married one from Cornwall first time round and I couldn't do a thing with her. She almost bit my ears off twice.

 

Oh incidentally, Charlie Jardine writes a ripping yarn but angling politician? I have my doubts. Then again, he might fit in tickerty boo in the domestic mob.

 

As for united angling? Keep UK angling free of crackpots I say. And gas the lot of us!!

 

I'm of up to Bedfordshire now galls and guys as I've been out all night fishing again. Caught two doubles and a big un. Woo Hoo!!

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Jim Roper]

http://www.animal-rights.org.uk

[Tog]

T.B

quote:

---

the anti-everything mob saddle up their horses.

---

Would'nt that be 'animal abuse'?

I always used to chuckle when the original Mrs Mcartney would spout off about being a veggie and then jump on a horsy and trot off! (PET@ etc are against even that!) She even believed the rat catcher when he told her he took his catch to a farm he knew where the farmer liked rats!!!!

[malevans]

The crunch is the wording and its interpretation, not the intent.

 

A fish when hooked and particularly when landed would seem to be covered by the sub sections highlighted.

 

I measure by results and not intent, and in this instance that scares me silly.