Livebaiting for pike

[Guest TheDacer]

Well, I'm surprised at the tone of some of the above comments.

 

I can see a clear distinction between livebaiting and fishing in general. Others, it appears, cannot.

 

Fair enough. On those grounds, those particular anglers, are entitled to call me a hypocrit. (Not in so-many words, but it is implied). We'll agree to disagree.

 

But what about the point that Neutrals regards livebaiting as cruel but not angling in general as cruel?

 

Can somebody actually address this?

[Guest NickInTheNorth]

TheDacer

 

What about the fact that the antis perceive fishing to be cruel?

 

Everyone has a point of view. We need to look at the broad picture. Live means live. Be it fish worm maggot slug mouse whatever. Should they all have the right to not have hooks impaled in them.

 

Yes, lets give animals rights.

 

I think I'd better sign up for PETA now, after all it is the main purpose of their campaign. Angling is only a high profile sideshow, to hide there real agenda.

 

If it is ok to stick hooks in fish, then it is ok to stick hooks in fish. It really cannot be differentiated whether it is to hook them and catch them, or rehook and cast them. You have a perfect right not to use livebait, but you should defend the rights of other anglers to make their own moral decisions.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Guest mpbdsnu]

I have followed the links, answered the two questions and cast my vote.

 

Personally, for what its worth, I have never livebaited because I choose not to purposely insert a hook into the body of a live fish. But that is my choice! I don't feel I can do it. On the other hand, again for what its worth, I have no problem with a fish hooking it's self by going after a bait I am offering it. Not much difference I suppose, but there you are!

 

The issue in question is an ecological one, and one which needs to be addressed, if a representative body can offer the authorities an alternative to the problem, then perhaps all will be resolved

 

Incidentally, (though really it isn't) I voted positively for the retaining of the legal right to livebait in Scotland?

 

Why? Because I do not have a problem with other's doing it - but then I'm an angler! I do however, understand the questioning of those putting forward the view of the neutral!

 

If a livebaiting ban goes ahead in Scotland and some success is achieved (for whatever purpose) there will be those looking to extend it elsewhere and use it - twist it - just as peta do concerning other matters - to achieve their aims.

 

[Guest Leon Roskilly]

Originally posted by TheDacer:

But what about the point that Neutrals regards livebaiting as cruel but not angling in general as cruel?

 

Can somebody actually address this?

 

Most 'neutrals', who I come in contact with, begrudgingly agree that fishing for the pot is acceptable. Pulling a fish from the water simply for the pleasure of catching it, then 'chucking it back' is not.

 

That's why in Germany, it is no longer legally acceptable to do so. Any fish caught has to be killed.

 

Unfortunately, in trying to give away angling practices bit by bit, we will lose our sport.

 

Dacer, I'm perfectly happy that you disagree with live-baiting. I'm perfectly happy that you try to persuade me and other anglers to your point of view. We can debate the rights and wrongs of the practice if you like.

 

What I vehemently disagree with is for any angler to sell down the river the practices of other anglers, in the hope that the antis will have no target to aim the general public at.

 

Lets try listing their possible targets.

 

Ban live-baiting.

Ban the use of treble hooks.

Ban barbed hooks.

Ban the use of keep nets.

Ban the use of groundbait.

Ban angling matches.

Ban non-biodegradable fishing lines.

Ban all lead weights.

Ban the killing of any fish for use as deadbait (including sea fish).

Ban catch and release fishing (Fish for food only).

Ban the use of any living thing for bait.

Ban the artificial stocking of waters.

Ban any angler who cannot pass a stiff exam (as they do in Germany).

Ban fishing on any water where wildfowl are prevalent.

Ban....

Ban...

Ban..

Ban.

 

Well you can see where the list ends can't you?

 

Where in the list do you think that the 'neutrals' won't be persuaded by emotive and reasoned argument not to go one step further?

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Guest Alan Pearce]

As ever Leon, well put and thanks for your wise contribution.

 

Alan.

[Guest Nightwing]

Difficult to top that post Leon. Good job.

[Guest tony jolley]

Spinning `round, in a spell

its hard to leave this carousel

`round and round

and round and round,

Still they ride,

 

 

There you have it!, The End of the show folks?,

 

------------------

Tony B.T Jolley

[Guest pikelines editor]

All,

 

Having followed this thread with interest, I find it all very scary.

 

We should ALL support each other and fight ANY threat to our sport. Do not be mislead, if livebaiting is banned it will open the door for more and more excuses. Victory makes the head swell and once a successful 'ban' crusade starts it won't end.

 

I bet any 'anti' reading these moral wranglings from us all will be smiling.

 

I am primarily a predator angler, but I don't livebait that much, in fact only in the summer for eels really. Yet I will always vigourously defend the practise as it is a part of the sport I love... angling and the friendship of fellow anglers.

 

It's so easy to say, oh it's not my problem, I can't be bothered, I'll just keep myself to myself, do my own thing and get on with my fishing. Then one day you wake up to find it illegal to do so, too late.

 

Also consider; if livebaiting is banned, it will just go 'underground' and those caught and prosecuted will further add more 'bad press' to angling in general? Not good for angling as a WHOLE.

 

In the end, the question must be, "If you are unhappy in hooking a fish to CAST it in, you should think seriously about your happiness in hooking them and REELING them in?"

 

OK, I can see a difference as most of us anglers can, but it is comparatively simple to the uneducated, ie. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

 

Ban it all...

 

I believe if your morals as an angler run so high as to disagree with livebaiting, you should be on the other side of the fence, sorry to be so direct.

 

Apathy in angling is unbelievable, sometimes we are our own worst enemies and deserve all we get!

 

Hey, looking forward to choosing livebaiting as the choice of method on my virtual-reality fishing computer game.

 

Is that a artist's rendition of a woodpecker, no, just a badly drawn tree-stump and that willow-warbler sound effect is a bit dodgy...

 

GREAT, NOT!!

 

I rest my case melud...

 

 

 

------------------

As darkness falls, big snigs come out to play...

 

Well, one has so far!

 

Best, Steve Ormrod

[Guest 'eelfisher']

Dear all

I have just read the two pages on 'banning' livebaiting and done so with the eyes of an individual who does not fish.....

 

The debate is crackers.....and I now see just how difficult it will be when someone from 'outside' angling decides to come to the party to debate and force these issues.

The Scotland issue is over 'translocation of livebaits'.....not, or shouldn't be, about banning a form of legitimate angling method.

 

I have not yet seen anyone from 'outside' of angling shouting about banning livebaiting....they are however, making noises about banning ANGLING.

 

What chance have we got IF we as anglers cannot support each others right to using a particular method in our form of angling?

 

I find it all very sad to read that someone doesn't like livebaiting and so wishes it to be banned to hopefully save the 'anti-march' into other areas.

 

Thank God Churchill didn't say to Hitler....."we'll give you Kent and you leave us alone, OK."

 

Anyone who is not up for supporting another fellow anglers angling methods should sod off and take up golf (with respect to golfers)....they ain't doing my prefered choice of outdoor activity any favours at all.

 

It is this crazy thing called 'human education' that will lead us all down the pan.

 

Does the reality of others using livebaiting as a means to catch fish stop 'The Dacer' going out of his front door to fish for his prefered species, with his prefered methods......NO it does not.

 

My words to 'The Dacer' are....go fishing, enjoy it and support those fellow anglers of yours in their time of need....that way, they will be there for you when the time comes for you to require help.

 

If livebaiting is eventually banned in angling, it will only leave me with two choices.....

1. Stop fishing.

2. Poach.

I will poach.....because I will know that I was sold down the river by some of my angling comrades and will not be bothered about whose angling I am potentially ruining by doing so.

 

I have posted this answer, as I feel that some out there only wish to be controversial......

The above statement is reasonably controversial......so come on, let's move away from attacking 'the use of livebaits' and attack 'eelfisher' for posting this reply.

 

At least those out there who do not fish, accept that humans attack each other and will not be so interested in reading what amounts to two pages of debate that, quite frankly, should be left off any viewable site if the end result is this culmination of thoughts that shows 'our enemies' just how 'UNITED' we all are!

 

Yours With Respect.....

Steve.

[Guest Alan Pearce]

To open this up still further my personal thoughts are, that those who live bait and or support this method of angling, should look to activly promote it. Everytime the Agency or some other body concerned with angling come up with something or other concerning live bait, angling gives way a bit. A bit here and a bit there and soon there will be little interest in the method and it will go altogether due to lack of resistance.

 

I am also not convinced personaly about the issues surrounding translocation of live bait. In my region of East Anglia live baiting has been a valid method for well over a century on the lakes, pits, broads, rivers and drains and yet no known diseases or other problems have resulted from this. Yes there is always the potential problem that carp could spread SVC and becauseof this could be precluded as bait. As for the most popular species used i.e. roach, rudd, chub, dace and perch, where is the evidence that they cause problem?

 

In reality to ask a live baiter to catch his bait from the venue on the day is in many instances tying one arm behind his back.

 

Perhaps part of the answer is to allow fishery owners and managers to apply their own rules regarding this aspect of our sport.

 

Alan.