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sunken paternoster flowing water and zander and budgie please help

John Weddup

By John Weddup
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John Weddup Member

John Weddup

Posted
Posted

Hi all

 

I know there is lots in old posts but cannot find answers I need so as there are so many non descript fishing posts at present I thought the knowledgeable might not mind writing about some real helpfull subjects.

 

I have come home early from my zander fishing for me as I usually stay out all weekend but with the weather forecast of very wet and windy tomorrow I chickened out.

 

No Not really I am hardcore. I want to get out for a longer 3 days hopefully next weekend the last weekend of the river season and I have so much work to do this week I am in danger of not getting out at all.

 

So I am going to work Sunday and hope to get ahead.

 

Rain flow colour are all things that make a river fish better and am really hoping to make a good weekend of the last river one as at long last rain is forecast.

 

Budgie and anyone else please help.

 

I know you have recommended the sunken paternoster live bait rig for my zander sessions and I now believe you are completely correct.

 

Does the one in AN rigs work in flowing water and at depth.

 

As you remember the drains flow at low tide as they let water out. It can start run hard for a few hours and then stop. Will the sunken paternoster work with this or is there something else I shoud do.

 

All help to a relative novice is most appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

John

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Phone Member

Phone

Posted
Posted (edited)

John,

 

FWIW, I've never found a rig (a single rig) that is good for both fast flowing and slower flowing. Are you willing to "change" rigs based on your personal judgement?

 

Phone

Edit: http://www.ontariowalleyefishing.com/artic...t-walleyes.html might be interesting if you have time to read it and interpolate between the lines for your circumstances. One thing that would be helpful in devising an answer. Are you fishing across the current?

Edit, edit: the Canucks are close relatives of the Brits. That's why I chose the URL from Canada.

Edited by Phone
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Kappa Member

Kappa

Posted
Posted
Hi all

 

I know there is lots in old posts but cannot find answers I need so as there are so many non descript fishing posts at present I thought the knowledgeable might not mind writing about some real helpfull subjects.

 

I have come home early from my zander fishing for me as I usually stay out all weekend but with the weather forecast of very wet and windy tomorrow I chickened out.

 

No Not really I am hardcore. I want to get out for a longer 3 days hopefully next weekend the last weekend of the river season and I have so much work to do this week I am in danger of not getting out at all.

 

So I am going to work Sunday and hope to get ahead.

 

Rain flow colour are all things that make a river fish better and am really hoping to make a good weekend of the last river one as at long last rain is forecast.

 

Budgie and anyone else please help.

 

I know you have recommended the sunken paternoster live bait rig for my zander sessions and I now believe you are completely correct.

 

Does the one in AN rigs work in flowing water and at depth.

 

As you remember the drains flow at low tide as they let water out. It can start run hard for a few hours and then stop. Will the sunken paternoster work with this or is there something else I shoud do.

 

All help to a relative novice is most appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

Are you fishing on the far or near bank?

 

Rich?

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Dave H Member

Dave H

Posted
Posted
Hi all

 

I know there is lots in old posts but cannot find answers I need so as there are so many non descript fishing posts at present I thought the knowledgeable might not mind writing about some real helpfull subjects.

 

I have come home early from my zander fishing for me as I usually stay out all weekend but with the weather forecast of very wet and windy tomorrow I chickened out.

 

No Not really I am hardcore. I want to get out for a longer 3 days hopefully next weekend the last weekend of the river season and I have so much work to do this week I am in danger of not getting out at all.

 

So I am going to work Sunday and hope to get ahead.

 

Rain flow colour are all things that make a river fish better and am really hoping to make a good weekend of the last river one as at long last rain is forecast.

 

Budgie and anyone else please help.

 

I know you have recommended the sunken paternoster live bait rig for my zander sessions and I now believe you are completely correct.

 

Does the one in AN rigs work in flowing water and at depth.

 

As you remember the drains flow at low tide as they let water out. It can start run hard for a few hours and then stop. Will the sunken paternoster work with this or is there something else I shoud do.

 

All help to a relative novice is most appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

John

 

John.

I would use a Paternosered live bait near , a dead bait far and a ledgered live in the middle

That is how used to cover my waters and if zander or pike that is what i do in most slow to middle flow rivers or drains.

 

i think the AN rigs are about right..IMO ;)


There is not one thing different between ideology and religeon
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Dales Member

Dales

Posted
Posted

Hi John,

 

I don't have much experience of that rig on flowing water and most of my live baiting on similar rigs has been on lakes then the system works very well. I have always had problems with getting the Sunken Paternoster Rig correct on rivers but that is more to do with my failings at rigging it correctly and using the right component parts rather then a failing in the idea. I do fish it from time to time on the near bank in slack water or if there is a drop off or structure in the middle it seems to have less problems when dropped behind it in a dead spot not effected by the current. I think I struggle to get over the idea of using thinner floats in flowing water as I love giant bubbles when using the rig in lakes :D

 

This is a simple tactic for fishing lives and I have had a few river Zander on a basic popped up bait using white poly balls and these days i have gone all posh and use the fox predator balls to pop the bait up. I am not sure if it will suit your fishing destination but I have used it alot for river Piking as it is easy to set up and cast anywhere in a swim. For Pike it works a treat, but as you know Zander require that added touch of finesse.

 

This year I have been able to use a rather crude sunken paternoster a number of times on the Lea as there is just no current to cause problems but have had a few aborted takes which may have been from Zander which I suspect may have rejected the bait when they felt the heavy lead. It's the same large float set up I used at the Fens Fish-In when something hit the bait at night when we where all having a chat but did not run off with it.

 

So I have been using this simple set up.

 

http://pikeonline.co.uk/rigs/bait-fishing-...up-livebait-rig

 

John, that probably does not help much but at least will bump the thread up for some one else to comment and I would also be interested to hear how others present a bait well for Zander. I think the AN one is correct but I have struggle with it sometimes.

Stephen

 

Species Caught 2014

Zander, Pike, Bream, Roach, Tench, Perch, Rudd, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Eel, Grayling, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout

Species Caught 2013

Pike, Zander, Bream, Roach, Eel, Tench, Rudd, Perch, Common Carp, Koi Carp, Brown Goldfish, Grayling, Brown Trout, Chub, Roosterfish, Dorado, Black Grouper, Barracuda, Mangrove Snapper, Mutton Snapper, Jack Crevalle, Tarpon, Red Snapper

Species Caught 2012
Zander, Pike, Perch, Chub, Ruff, Gudgeon, Dace, Minnow, Wels Catfish, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Roach, Bream, Eel, Rudd, Tench, Arapaima, Mekong Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Marbled Tiger Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Thai Redtail Catfish, Batrachian Walking Catfish, Siamese Carp, Rohu, Julliens Golden Prize Carp, Giant Gourami, Java Barb, Red Tailed Tin Foil Barb, Nile Tilapia, Black Pacu, Red Bellied Pacu, Alligator Gar
Species Caught 2011
Zander, Tench, Bream, Chub, Barbel, Roach, Rudd, Grayling, Brown Trout, Salmon Parr, Minnow, Pike, Eel, Common Carp, Mirror Carp, Ghost Carp, Koi Carp, Crucian Carp, F1 Carp, Blue Orfe, Ide, Goldfish, Brown Goldfish, Comet Goldfish, Golden Tench, Golden Rudd, Perch, Gudgeon, Ruff, Bleak, Dace, Sergeant Major, French Grunt, Yellow Tail Snapper, Tom Tate Grunt, Clown Wrasse, Slippery Dick Wrasse, Doctor Fish, Graysby, Dusky Squirrel Fish, Longspine Squirrel Fish, Stripped Croaker, Leather Jack, Emerald Parrot Fish, Red Tail Parrot Fish, White Grunt, Bone Fish
Species Caught 2010
Zander, Pike, Perch, Eel, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Mirror Carp, Common Carp, Crucian Carp, Siamese Carp, Asian Redtail Catfish, Sawai Catfish, Rohu, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Pacu, Long Tom, Moon Wrasse, Sergeant Major, Green Damsel, Tomtate Grunt, Sea Chub, Yellowtail Surgeon, Black Damsel, Blue Dot Grouper, Checkered Sea Perch, Java Rabbitfish, One Spot Snapper, Snubnose Rudderfish
Species Caught 2009
Barramundi, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Wallago Leeri Catfish, Wallago Attu Catfish, Amazon Redtail Catfish, Mrigul, Siamese Carp, Java Barb, Tarpon, Wahoo, Barracuda, Skipjack Tuna, Bonito, Yellow Eye Rockfish, Red Snapper, Mangrove Snapper, Black Fin Snapper, Dog Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Marble Grouper, Black Fin Tuna, Spanish Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Redhind Grouper, Saddle Grouper, Schoolmaster, Coral Trout, Bar Jack, Pike, Zander, Perch, Tench, Bream, Roach, Rudd, Common Carp, Golden Tench, Wels Catfish
Species Caught 2008
Dorado, Wahoo, Barracuda, Bonito, Black Fin Tuna, Long Tom, Sergeant Major, Red Snapper, Black Damsel, Queen Trigga Fish, Red Grouper, Redhind Grouper, Rainbow Wrasse, Grey Trigger Fish, Ehrenbergs Snapper, Malabar Grouper, Lunar Fusiler, Two Tone Wrasse, Starry Dragonet, Convict Surgeonfish, Moonbeam Dwarf Angelfish,Bridled Monocle Bream, Redlined Triggerfish, Cero Mackeral, Rainbow Runner
Species Caught 2007
Arapaima, Alligator Gar, Mekong Catfish, Spotted Sorubim Catfish, Pacu, Siamese Carp, Barracuda, Black Fin Tuna, Queen Trigger Fish, Red Snapper, Yellow Tail Snapper, Honeycomb Grouper, Red Grouper, Schoolmaster, Cubera Snapper, Black Grouper, Albacore, Ballyhoo, Coney, Yellowfin Goatfish, Lattice Spinecheek

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Dick Dastardly Member

Dick Dastardly

Posted
Posted (edited)

Unless the flow is really strong I look no further than this rig for live baiting for Zeds John.All my big doubles came on it-

 

budgie02.gif

 

The only "pain" with it is that you need to dry it and tape together the trace swivel/snap link and the curtain ring with PVA before each cast else it all "opens" up in mid air.But small price to pay.Ive found that the easier to use "fixed" paternoster simply offers to much resistance for Zeds.

Edited by BUDGIE

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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John Weddup Member

John Weddup

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Posted

Thankyou all for taking the trouble to help me.

 

Its only when you start using different methods that the problems start to become apparent.

 

The area's I am now fishing for zander will not be prolific infact I expect lots of blanks whereas not far away I can catch lots of fish but the challenge of harder area's almost unfished with less but bigger fish is appealing to me.

 

My new fishing mate that really got me going on zander is going to be a companion for next season for bream tench and come autumn a proper winter campaign on fens zander.

 

He may post a few details or maybe a pic of this weekends discovery.

 

Budgie that rig looks spot on but 2 questions what size of float or does it not matter regardless of amount of flow and Not quite sure where you pva string it together. I always have pva handy so no problem there.

 

Oh and as I cannot count past 2 another question will it work in all depths but I guess it must knowing where you fished for zander.

 

How long is length from bomb to float or do you vary this accordingly.

 

John

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Dick Dastardly Member

Dick Dastardly

Posted
Posted
Thankyou all for taking the trouble to help me.

 

Its only when you start using different methods that the problems start to become apparent.

 

The area's I am now fishing for zander will not be prolific infact I expect lots of blanks whereas not far away I can catch lots of fish but the challenge of harder area's almost unfished with less but bigger fish is appealing to me.

 

My new fishing mate that really got me going on zander is going to be a companion for next season for bream tench and come autumn a proper winter campaign on fens zander.

 

He may post a few details or maybe a pic of this weekends discovery.

 

Budgie that rig looks spot on but 2 questions what size of float or does it not matter regardless of amount of flow and Not quite sure where you pva string it together. I always have pva handy so no problem there.

 

Oh and as I cannot count past 2 another question will it work in all depths but I guess it must knowing where you fished for zander.

 

How long is length from bomb to float or do you vary this accordingly.

 

John

 

 

Any depths mate,the length of the weak link is simply altered to fish the bait higher or lower in the water.Size of float depends on size of bait (allways use a 3 ozs bomb minimum though as its the bomb staying put on the take that helps it be free running. I usually us an ET Sunken Pencil in medium. As the trace and main line can run freely through the ring you need to tape the curtain ring and the snap link or swivel of the hook trace to it other wise when you cast the bottom half of the rig (ie the bit with the float/weak link/bomb on it will just slide up the line.You would then have to wind in loads of slack to get the rig fishing properly (the cork ball is just an over sized "stop" for the curtain ring and it should be fished tight up against it,but not tight enough to pull the float over to flat) best way to insure its all set up right is to cast out,tighten up,put on the rear drop off indicator,pay out or tighten up till the arm will pull rise back up to just below horizontal then tighten up a few inches. This ensures the rig sits as is shown in the diagram ie the float/weak link not quite vertical but not pulled over flat. A lot easier than it sounds when described.

 

I use a similar set up when eel fishing so come eel time (or if I get anymore pike trips in before) I will do a quick video and put it on U-tube for you.Dead easy if you see it.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Dave H Member

Dave H

Posted
Posted

I have to admit all this pop up stuff i must learn like you John. I last fished when the only pop up was for carp and that was new. I look at these rigs like Budgies and i know 100% he knows what he is talking about but i look at these popped up live and dead baits and one for eel etc etc.

 

I think this year unless the fish are feeding off the bottom i am screwed!

 

I look at that diagramn and say 'Yep that's it in my head' but to set that up is going to be a ruddy nightmare for me and i do not mind admitting it. :huh:


There is not one thing different between ideology and religeon
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