Stillwater perch deadbaits-Leger or float?

[davedave]

Hi all,

 

I was curious as to what you have caught best on legered or float fished deadbaits for perch? I have always legered but I have heard some different opinions on the bank today. One guy who I know to be a very good perch fishermen said that legering was prone to tangles which means the perch will drop the bait, the weight can sink into the mud especially with all the recent rain making it unsensitive and you can't see where you are baiting effectively. I have never tried float fishing, but the depths of water I fish (8 foot plus) puts me off. I have also caught on the leger but can't compare it to float fishing as this is something I haven't done with deadbaits.

 

Which do you prefer when using small roach and deadbaits, leger or float? Also any links to float rigs would be brilliant.

 

Also do you puncture the swim bladder of your deadbaits? And where abouts is the swim bladder on a roach?

 

 

Thanks very much

[tomhaggett]

In that depth of water I'd ledger them. Use a large diameter run ring to cut down the resistance, and a paternoster style link if it's particularly silty.

 

What's your reasoning for wanting to use deads? I've always found them pretty hopeless for Perch. Are you allowed to use livelies?

[Phone]

davedave,

 

Not 100% positive about roach specifically, but in most cyprids the swim bladder is under and equal to the length of the dorsal fin.

 

Having said that, all dead fish are negative buoyancy. If they are dead (by more than a few minutes) the swim bladder is already deflated. Spoiled or rotted fish may have gas in the body cavity in general.

 

Phone

[Steve Burke]

My first choice is always the float when fishing at close range. This is because the float is more sensitive, whilst with a ledger there's likely to be more resistance, or should I say change in resistance. This can often put the bigger fish off especially. Additionally, it's easier to see in which way the perch takes and to time the strike.

 

As the range gets longer it's more likely that I'd choose to ledger. This was the case on the Predators programme I did for Sky TV. Then it was a question of the disturbance of my pupil and the camera crew, although I have to say the crew were better than I feared.

 

In many cases on ponds, farm reservoirs and commercials I'm fishing 2 rods and then I'd be likely to have 1 on the float and 1 on the ledger. Even on waters such as commercials that usually have clear bottoms I catch a lot more specimen stripies on the float rod than the ledger one. So proof of the pudding really.

 

The rig is very simple regardless of whether I'm fishing a live or a deadbait - an undershotted waggler with, as a starting point, the bulk shot usually about 20 inches from the bait with a smaller shot about 12 inches away. The idea of the undershotted float is that the tip stays above the surface for longer, allowing you to time the strike and to give better indication of the way the fish runs. It also slows the bait down when fishing a livebait, keeping it the strike zone for longer. Indeed, livebaits fished overdepth usually eventually settle, and the first indication of a take is often the float going slowly under after the perch has stalked its prey. If fishing deep water I may have to resort to a sliding float, especially as I'm likely to be laying a foot or so of line on the bottom.

 

I've written many times that the depth is critical with big perch, but I normally prefer to fish on the bottom on commercials as the presentation is better, plus I can congregate the small fry there with heavy baiting. This means I may be fishing at shorter range in shallower water as the light fades. Sometimes it'll be straight out, other times along the bank. When you first start on a water fishing lives and deads up in the water will catch the perch, but they do wise up. I haven't found that to be so with bottom baits to anywhere near the same extent.

 

I've caught both on punctured and unpunctured deadbaits, both work on the day. I normally just tread on the deadbait whereupon the swimbladder audibly pops,and the squashed bait lets out a lot of juices. Half baits are also very successful. It's important that the deadbaits are extra fresh, even used the next day the catch rate drops off whether you freeze them or not. And as I've posted before, static sea deadbaits are next to useless on all the waters I've ever fished for perch. However both freshwater and sea deads attract carp, that in many cases can be a confounded nuisance! That's why my favourite size bait is 5 inches.

 

Tom's right about a large diameter rod ring, and also about a paternoster on silty bottoms.

 

However I've never yet fished a water where perch haven't responded to deadbaits, although you're likely to catch more (sometimes many more) on lives. The average size is higher though on deads, and it's not just a matter of catching less small perch. On some commercials a proportion of the biggest perch seem to be primarily scavengers. There's more about baits in this article of mine here on Angler's Net at http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/Coarse-Fishing-Articles/perch-baits.html.

 

For my thoughts on catching big perch on commercials see http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/Coarse-Fishing-Articles/big_perch_steve_burke.html. This also contains some rig diagrams. These are slightly out of date, but I'm afraid you'll have to wait for my new perch book for updates - if with running Wingham I get time to finish it!

 

Finally, if you can see my signature below there's links to more of my articles, including several on perch.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Steve Burke

[Anderoo]

I usually leger these days. I've got the rigs just right now so tangles are impossible and shy bites show up well, and I'd rather be able to relax and look around than have to look at a float for long periods when nothing's happening. The float will always be more sensitive, but I'm happy with the compromise. If I'd been float fishing today I'd have eye strain by now!

 

I don't make a point of popping the swim bladders of freshly killed deads - they always sink anyway.

 

Ps if the bottom is thick silt I'd try to find an area of harder bottom, perch don't seem to like feeding over thick silt.

[Anderoo]

Forgot to say, I did try to catch some small roach to use as deads today, but all the roach I caught were over a pound! A fantastic average size but no good for perch baits!

[davedave]

Thanks for all the replies. Especially yours Steve thanks for taking the time to write that. I'm going to bed now as i'm up early tomorrow but I shall update you tomorrow or sunday

Edited February 15, 2013 by davedave

[Steve Burke]

One point in favour of float fishing I forgot is that you don't need to point the rod at the bait to cut down on resistance. When ledgering it can all too often be important to do so, which means that in some swims your options as to where you place the bait are restricted.

[Dave H]

I have caught
my best Perch always in vanishing light. What I mean is as the sun goes down if
the float is fluctuated by objects such as a bush or even tall reed beds the
quick changes by the second of light is what they like the best . I guess it
could be the principle of you driving being blinded by that split second and
then being vulnerable to an accident

As a
predator hunter in many other aspects of animals it is positively the case.
Especially with falcons who use this to huge effect.

[Anderoo]

That makes sense. Where Rich and I have been fishing, windy days with a good chop on the water are far better than still days, probably for the same reason.