Heroes? Who wants them?

[spasor]

Having just spent a complete shift with a fire crew in N.London. They don`t want to be heroes!!

When I showed them a copy of my posting to this arena? You`ve guessed it!!!

Firemen would rather rely on the so called invinceability of a building than having a local politician calling their dead mates heroes!!!

Up `till yesterday the `Port Authority` in NY has recieved 1100 compensation claims due to the twin towers collapse. Over 1000 of them have cited maladministration in the fire-proofing of the main stress girders? Plus incompetant inspection of all fireproofing. Either on the behalf of the installers or the inspectors who passed all such work as safe!!

Of course! These people bosses, are the ones that claim the dead to be heroes?

Much easier to call all people, such as myself nasty unfeeling or anti- american?

70 % of all the surviving senior fire officers in NY are retiring this year or next! Why?

They are on a final years pay = pension! They`ve had so much overtime these past 12 months that retirement actually looks good!!

No more 35yrs in the NYFD, then retire and look for a part-time job!!! Some of these men can actually afford to retire!!!

Sod mayors calling them heroes, after years protecting the public for very little in return!!

Sod going into public buildings to rescue folk. When the owners of the buildings have cut back on all the safety regulations!!

The twin towers, were badly maintained and under insured. So If I was a day out of date to say so?

Who was the first person to call the dead heroes?

Either a local politician or local building manager?

Al Queda didn`t kill most of these people. Local greedy builders and inspectors did!!!

For stating this, I will make no appology!!

[dave_h]

A hero becomes one on instinct not because he wants to become one!!

He or she does it on reaction! If the hero thought about the risk then quite often they will not become one.

"Spur of the moment" as some people call it and you never no when its going to be!

[Jim Roper]

I see our firemen want £30,000 a year!

 

Does that mean they will give up their second jobs doing full-timers out of work?

I doubt it!

 

Jim Roper

[spasor]

Dave.h?

What planet do you come from?

The first 3 brigades of fire troops didn`t suffer a single casualty!! Why? Because they attended the fire in the first tower to be hit!!

All later firebrigades attended the second tower to be hit!! As soon as the 2nd tower collapsed the 1st tower was evacuated!! Not because of cowardise, just common sense!!

If any of those firemen had known of the high risk decisions of the owners of those two buildings. None of them would have died!!!!!!!

How easy it is to call the dead heroes!! Instead of calling to account those rich, walled around senators and property tycoons?

Why were the twin towers only half insured?

Why has the number of claims against the property owners now exceeded 1200? Growing daily?

Why is there no outcry against the builders and maintainence companies? When the various sub companies and pseudo companies have been sifted through. Hows about a bet, that New Yorks most illustrious famillies are found to have their grubby little hands in the pie?

If those towers were standing today? Would they be condemned as unsafe? Even after all the evidence wev`e seen in these past few weeks?

Some glib mouthed senator would have found some reason for keeping them open!!!!!

Those that died, did just that. As much as certain people would like to concentrate on heroes. Those buildings we`re unsafe!! Al Queda just got lucky?

Remember `Towering Inferno`? Glib, shock -horror movie? Well, the twin towers was the proof!!! Don`t berate the people that ask awkward questions. Ask them for yourself if you`ve got the bottle!! How come an invincible building dropped in on itself? How come we`ve all seen photo`s of non existant fire screens?

How come half of NYFD couldn`t talk to the other half?

Or is it easier to say we had 2500 heroes and forget the hard questions?

If that`s your answer! May god protect your children. Because you won`t!!!!!

Paul.

[dave_h]

mmmmm! I am sorry if i offended you spasor i think you got the wrong end of the stick here!

Read it again, theres no malice in it.

I have nothing but admiration for people that saves life, believe me i have been saved by such an act.In fact on two occasions i owe my life to them.

I think you read too much into my post and if you did i apologise

 

p.s Is this Earth

[catchaplenty]

spasor:

Having just spent a complete shift with a fire crew in N.London.  They don`t want to be heroes!!

  When I showed them a copy of my posting to this arena?  You`ve guessed it!!!

    Firemen would rather rely on the so called invinceability of a building than having a local politician calling their dead mates heroes!!!

  Up `till yesterday the `Port Authority` in NY has recieved 1100 compensation claims due to the twin towers collapse. Over 1000 of them have cited maladministration in the fire-proofing of the main stress girders? Plus incompetant inspection of all fireproofing. Either on the behalf of the installers or the inspectors who passed all such work as safe!!

  Of course! These people bosses, are the ones that claim the dead to be heroes?

 Much easier to call all people, such as myself nasty unfeeling or anti- american?

 70 % of all the surviving senior fire officers in NY are retiring this year or next! Why?

  They are on a final years pay = pension! They`ve had so much overtime these past 12 months that retirement actually looks good!!

 No more 35yrs in the NYFD, then retire and look for a part-time job!!!  Some of these men can actually afford to retire!!!

   Sod mayors calling them heroes, after years protecting the public for very little in return!!

 Sod going into public buildings to rescue folk. When the owners of the buildings have cut back on all the safety regulations!!

  The twin towers, were badly maintained and under insured.  So If I was a day out of date to say so?

  Who was the first person to call the dead heroes?

   Either a local politician or local building manager?

   Al Queda didn`t kill most of these people. Local greedy builders and inspectors did!!!

    For stating this, I will make no appology!!

I'm so glad this ***** took you a lot longer to write than it took me to read and bin it.

Dave

[chesters1]

i saw the program on the building of the towers and indeed the poor reinsulating was the cause of the collapse ,the tower was built to withstand the inpact of a plane ,but the planes then were smaller than today (and i dont think the fuel was in the equation)

its easy to blame in hindsite but seems a little strange the floors were not supported better ,just relying on bolted brackets on the two frames

i know this is going to stir up some of you but i think the head firefighters were extremly lacking in judgement ,both buildings should have been evacuated as soon as possible ,all i saw in the docu thing was confusion ,the police had not (as seen in about every police situation)cordoned of the area to stop people wandering about willy nilly

who ever let those people clutter the roof with obstructions should be procecuted ,a lot of people could have been rescued by helicopter.

are dead people heroes ? usually yes have you ever heard some being called "bad" at a funeral ,lack of judgement and planning cost unneccessary lives ,hopefully something will come from it ,yes lots of heroes died ,but did they have to?

[Simon Newbould]

Jim Roper:

I see our firemen want £30,000 a year!

 

Does that mean they will give up their second jobs doing full-timers out of work?

I doubt it!

 

Jim Roper

Blimey Jim,

 

My mate's a fireman. If it wasn't for his wife earning good money he wouldn't be able to live in London on the salary he gets.... Yes he's got a part time job (2 days a week), he needs this to make ends meet...

 

We had a discussion about this a while ago.. it transpires that he is paid £7 per hour... one of the people in this discussion said that he wished he was earning the same.... to which my mate responded... "ok, I'll give you 7 quid and you can run into a burning building"

 

What they get paid is a total disgrace - he puts his life on the line on every shout... for 7 quid an hour... I get paid double that for sitting on my arse in a nice cozy office... surfing the net!

 

Simon

[DMCA]

This site has a lot of interesting stuff on the towers, including a detailed interview with an MIT engineering professor about why they collapsed and a description of how he escaped by one of the very few people who survived from above the impact zone:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

 

One thing that puzzles me about these very tall buidings (and this is not meant to be a frivolous suggestion) is why parachutes are not available as emergency equipment. If something happens where immediate evacuation is necessary (or where there is no safe way down) this surely must be the best way out, assuming you are high enough.

[chesters1]

the parachute idea looks good (as a last resort) maybe a manually operated chute that extends out for a distance from the building,the user straps on the parachute and slides down the chute the parachute`s drone is pulled automaticly as the user goes off the end ,if a old fashioned round parachute is used little can go wrong ,a pair of broken legs is better than death ,i`d risk it if all the people learn how to use them (theoreticly) as part of their fire drill and a couple of employees in charge of it ,it seems VERY good

 

[ 16. September 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: chesters1 ]