Guernsey Bass Management Meeting

[Jaffa]

Well, if the week limit hadn't been changed into a month limit they might have stayed back fishing their homewaters only, THAT would have been conservation - for the south

 

Fair point. I Wonder what they would fished instead though? buy quota and fish north sea haddock or cod, switch west, take out several bank loans to get hold of some mackeral/herring quota? Decommission maybe.. Wonder who might buy up the quota?

 

Wonder what happens when the french have all the track record when oceanographic conditions switch and fisheries managers decide bass is suddenly pressure stock?

 

Be a good board game, that could be sold beside every tagged bass in M&S

 

Lifes full of wonder

[Leon Roskilly]

What in practice is the difference to a skipper like Steve?

 

Not a lot of practical difference to Steve, but a whole lot of difference to the stock.

 

I feel that its important that people that are interested, and who have an interest, understand the different mechanisms used to control access to different stocks. Anything wrong with that?

 

 

If the french suggested it then I'd guess its all about preventing the flooding of markets and not about conservation as such?

It came about as a result of campaigning in the UK to stop/restrict the pair trawling of bass. The fish were getting smaller and fewer. The French were already ahead of the game.

 

You have something to back up your assertion that, having fished the bass limit, the scots pair trawlers then switch to other species??!

 

? I made no such assertation. Didn't even mention Scots pair trawlers ??

 

 

Did MAFF know it was a " conservation" issue?!

 

Yes

 

 

Following much debate and a consultation in the years leading up to it, the measures came in on 1st January 2000.

 

Unfortunately all of the information regarding the consultation, DEFRA Press releases etc are no longer available online it seems, otherwise you would then be able to understand more about this old issue.

(But hard copy is probably still available from DEFRA)

 

 

Were you not interested/Involved in such issues then jaffa?

 

It was the major issue of its type at that time, especially for the Scots pair Trawlers who were demanding a 50 tonne a week landing limit.

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited January 17, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[wurzel]

Hello Leon

 

Quote

It came about as a result of campaigning in the UK to stop/restrict the pair trawling of bass. The fish were getting smaller and fewer. The French were already ahead of the game.

 

First I've heard of this, as far I was aware like Cris said it was to stop over loading the markets .

[Leon Roskilly]

Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food

Room 425b. Nobel House, 17 Smith Square. Westminster, SWIP 3JR

Telephone: 0171 238 5583 GTN: 238 5583

Direct line:0171 238 5583 FAX: 0171 238 5721

 

To: Interested Organisations

 

15 October 1999

 

FISHERIES CONSERVATION

 

PROPOSED CONSERVATION MEASURES FOR THE OFFSHORE

SPRING BASS FISHERY

 

The attached consultation document seeks your views on proposals to restrict the

landings of bass from any British fishing vessel to 5 tonnes per week. This, we

believe, is a necessary response to early signs that the offshore fishery on pre-spawning and spawning bass may be having an adverse effect on the stock as a

whole.

 

Further information is given in the consultation document.

 

In line with the Ministry's, policy of openness we intend to make publicly

available at the end of the consultation period copies of comments we have

received. They will be available from the Ministry's main library at 3 Whitehall

Place, London SW IA 2HH. The library will supply copies on request (tel: 0645

335577 - local call rate will be charged). An administrative charge to cover the

cost of photocopying and postage will apply. We will assume that you have no

objection to your response being made publicly available in this way unless you

clearly indicate with your comments that you wish all or part of your reply to

excluded from this arrangement.

 

Please would you address your replies to me at Room 425B, Nobel House, 17

Smith Square, London SWIP 3JR. Telephone: 0171 238 5583. Fax: 0171 238

572 1 or by Email to s.h.fishiiib@fish.maff.gov.uk

 

Your comments should reach me no later than 1 5 November 1999.

 

P D Winterbottom

Fisheries III

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

CONSULTATION PAPER : BASS CONSERVATION FOR THE OFFSHORE FISHERY

 

THE PROBLEM

 

I. There is recent empirical and anecdotal evidence that the

numbers of mature bass returning to UK coastal waters from the

offshore spawning grounds to the west of Britain have declined

considerably. This may be an indication that the offshore fishery on

pre-spawning and spawning bass has been taking so many mature fish

that it is damaging the spawning potential of the stock.

 

 

BACKGROUND - THE FISHERY

 

2. An international fishery for sea bass takes place between

December and early May offshore in ICES Division Vlle, south of the

Lizard and Start Point, and on the Trevose Head grounds in VIIf. This

fishery developed in the 1980s, when mid-water pair trawlers from

Lorient began to fish for bass following the collapse of the black

bream fisheiy. They were joined later by UK vessels. About half-a-

dozen are now involved in this fishery. This fishery concentrates on

pre-spawning and spawning fish. In addition, offshore demersal

trawlers take bass as a by-catch in the Channel.

 

 

3. The inshore bass fishery around England and Wales relies on fish moving

out of estuary nursery areas. These areas are stocked by larvae brought inshore

by currents from the offshore spawning grounds. The fishery also benefits from

the availability of adult fish which have returned inshore after spawning. It

involves an estimated 180 - 430 full-time boats and 1300 - 2000 part-time boats,

with the full-time boats showing a marked increase since 1992, particularly in the southwest and west. This fishery takes place chiefly between April and October, though small landings of bass are made in November and December.

 

 

CATCHES

 

French pair trawl landings

 

4. Estimates from UK surveillance and inspection data indicate that 500-

 

1000 tonnes were taken in 1990/91 and 150-650 tonnes in 1992/93, whereas in

 

1996/97 a catch of 2800 - 5000 tonnes were taken by this fleet in VIIe alone.

 

Between 400 and 1600 tonnes were landed in 1998. Estimates for 1999 are not

 

yet available but it is understood that the French effort was down considerably

 

on previous years because of an apparent lack of fish.

 

 

UK landings

 

5. Overall, landings per unit of fishing effort (which provide an index of

abundance for the fishable bass population) in the UK inshore fishery have

fluctuated around the average level from 1985-1996, with no clear trend except

in 1994, when the exceptional 1989 year-class recruited to the fishery and catch

rates trebled. Annual landings by the UK fishery as a whole were around 600

tonnes between 1985 and 1992, increased to over 2,700 tonnes in 1994 and fell

back to around 1,400 tonnes in 1995 and 1996. The UK offshore pair-trawl

fishery reported landings of 43 tonnes of bass in 1998 but some 226 tonnes were

landed by this fleet in 1999.

 

6. The trends in the fishery are worrying. They may indicate that the offshore

stock is depleted and that the depletion is already affecting the inshore fishery.

 

 

BIOLOGICAL SUSTAINABILITY

 

7. We know very little at present about the impact of this

exploitation by the offshore fishery on the adult bass stock, and

subsequently on bass populations prosecuted by the coastal fisheries

around England, Wales, France, the Channel Islands, Ireland,

Belgium and the Netherlands. Although there have recently been a

number of above-average year-classes in UK waters, there is a strong

association between recruitment and sea temperatures, and a

favourable climate change may be masking the effect that

exploitation of the spawning stock is likely to have on future

recruitment. In an attempt to address this, a joint study with France

and Ireland has been prepared by CEFAS for funding under the EC

call for studies in Support of the CFP. This would enable advice to be

given on a sustainable level of exploitation, and to indicate criteria for

setting long term control measures, if necessary. If the bid is

successful, work will start in November 1999.

 

 

THE MANAGEMENT ISSUE

 

8. The bass is particularly economically important in the UK

(including the Channel Isles), France and Ireland (where there is a

valuable tourist recreational fishery). In the UK, this has been

recognized by the implementation of a national conservation package

(36cm MLS, nursery areas closed to bass fishing and enmeshing net

mesh size regulations) in 1990, which was designed to reduce

exploitation on juvenile bass and thus ameliorate growth overfishing.

In Ireland, commercial exploitation of bass was made illegal in 1990.

The exploitation of mature bass offshore is, however, essentially

uncontrolled. There are no direct effort or catch restrictions (other

than a weekly quota of 5 tonnes for vessels landing into France) and

the EC Minimum Landing Size of 36cm. This size is not a constraint

offshore since very few bass under this size are caught there.

 

 

9. In the UK, France and Ireland, inshore artisanal and recreational

fishermen complain that the undoubted benefits of the conservation

measures protecting juvenile bass are being dissipated by the offshore

fishery. At present, the inshore commercial fishery in the UK gets

roughly a year's uncontested fishing on each recruiting year-class

(e.g. in 1994, on the 1989 year class), between the fish attaining the

MLS of 36 cm and moving offshore to the adult stock. When the

adult bass return inshore in spring, following spawning, they

supplement the summer fishery, but these fish are now perceived to

be returning in much reduced numbers. As a consequence, effort on

juvenile bass may be intensifying, thus undemining the current

conservation package aimed at protecting these fish.

 

 

POSSIBLE MANAGEMENT ACTION

 

10. Prudence suggests that managers should act now to introduce some

controls on fishing aimed at avoiding a possible stock collapse even though

there is no absolute evidence that bass stocks around the UK are

threatened by the current level of exploitation of adult fish offshore.

 

 

I I. As a first step it is suggested that the UK should follow the

French example and limit bass landings in the UK to 5 tonnes per

week per vessel.

 

 

12. The benefits of this would be:

 

a) landing opportunities would be equal in the UK and France,

(and Ireland would probably welcome similar limits, because

French landings are made there even though there is a prohibition

of commercial fishing for bass in Ireland);

 

 

to provide a constraint on the rate of exploitation of the adult stock

pending the completion of a full assessment of the sustainability of

the stock to exploitation; and

 

 

c) to buy time for the stock pending the international research work

referred to in paragraph 7.

[Leon Roskilly]

First I've heard of this, as far I was aware like Cris said it was to stop over loading the markets .

 

 

Probably just Cris's attempt at 'smoke and mirrors' Wurzel LOL

 

TL - leon

Edited January 17, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Toerag]

The original French implementation of the 5/20 ton landing limit was done to prevent price crash. Even with this limit in place the price in Cherbourg will drop as low as £1.80 per Kilo when multiple boats land on the same day.

<This info has come from one of the Guernsey skippers that is a member of the Cherbourg co-op and lands there all the time>

[Leon Roskilly]

The original French implementation of the 5/20 ton landing limit was done to prevent price crash. Even with this limit in place the price in Cherbourg will drop as low as £1.80 per Kilo when multiple boats land on the same day.

<This info has come from one of the Guernsey skippers that is a member of the Cherbourg co-op and lands there all the time>

 

 

That probably explains the confusion Toerag.

 

As can be seen above, the UK measures were entirely about conservation with no mention at all about preserving the market price of landed bass.

 

In France the inshore fishermen have campigned against the activities of the pair trawl fleet, not particularly on conservation issues, but because it damages their own fishing and because it affects their own market.

 

My understanding is that the French also have had a ban against pair trawling for bass in their 12 mile zone in place for quite some time.

 

It's interesting that the French inshore fleet are far more pro-active at protecting their fishery than is the case with our own inshore fishermen.

 

Do you know if the French inshore guys are supporting the petition that CBE have put before the EU for a close season on spawning bass?

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited January 17, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[wurzel]

Hello Leon

 

Talking of "Smoke and mirrors"

 

Quote

views on proposals to restrict the

landings of bass from any British fishing vessel to 5 tonnes per week. This, we believe, is a necessary response to early signs that the offshore fishery on pre-spawning and spawning bass may be having an adverse effect on the stock as a

whole.

 

I thought somebody said the offshore winter bass fishery has very little effect on the UK's bass stock.

[Leon Roskilly]

Hello Leon

 

Talking of "Smoke and mirrors"

 

Quote

views on proposals to restrict the

landings of bass from any British fishing vessel to 5 tonnes per week. This, we believe, is a necessary response to early signs that the offshore fishery on pre-spawning and spawning bass may be having an adverse effect on the stock as a

whole.

 

I thought somebody said the offshore winter bass fishery has very little effect on the UK's bass stock.

 

 

That was the case towards the end of the '90s Wurzel. Remember that document was produced back then, not now.

 

 

Two things have happened to change that since then.

 

 

a ) Bass need a winter temperature of around 9C for successful spawning, in earlier years, for most fish, that meant a trip down to the warmer water down towards the South-Western approaches where there were huge congregations of spawning bass, as the pair trawlers discovered in the 80s. But with increasing sea temperatures, bass are increasingly finding suitably warmer waters closer to home.

 

 

b ) Because the bass spawning congregations were being hit so hard by pair trawling, the relative success of bass predisposed to spawning closer inshore and further north, increased the proportion of fish in the stock that were not inclined to make those no longer necessary long journies into what had become a dangerous territory, so the spawning migrations from our inshore waters has largely dried up.

 

 

See Pawson's latest explanation of what is happening now with the migratation of bass stocks at:

 

http://ukbass.com/2005/12/bass-mls-scientific-view_09.html

 

 

The sea areas in which stocks of bass have been identified, based on migratory patterns and exploiting fisheries, are shown in Figure 1.

 

Arrows indicate movements of adult bass within these areas as shown by tagging exercises carried out in the late 1970s - early 1980s and in 2000/3.

 

The results of these studies were similar, except that a migration of bass in late autumn from the North Sea to offshore spawning areas in the western English Channel (where these fish were caught in the pair-trawl fishery in winter) no longer appears to take place.

 

In general, adult bass now appear to remain near their summer feeding areas much later in the year, and to spawn further north, possibly as a consequence of climate warming.

 

 

 

I'm surprised that you are not more familiar with all of this Wurzel, or was this an attempt by you to use smoke and mirrors? LOL

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited January 17, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[steve good]

I'm sure that Steve knows all there is to know about how to target and catch fish.

 

Unfortunately Steve seems to not really have a good grasp of the nitty gritty of the regulations, and the concepts behind them.

 

That can be dangerous in these times when the authorities are inclined to crack down hard on commercial fishermen who contravene the rules, and they are not prepared to make any allowance for misunderstandings.

 

 

See http://www.anglers-net.co.uk/sacn/latest/index.php?view=474 :eek:

It might make your head ache, trying to get it around the constantly changing regulations, but It's worth the effort in times like these.

 

I wouldn't like to see your name come up on one of these reports because of an honest mistake Steve

 

hi leon,

 

I understand the regulations and I always contact my defra office to see if there are any changes, from time to time.

 

I am bewildered by your posting, the inferance seem to suggust that I am contravening fishery regulations and I can assure that I conduct my trade in accordance with the law, I have no record, criminal or otherwise. I have been a commercial fisherman for 28 years if i did not understand the rules I would have been done many times. I feel it is you that does not understand the regulation, check with defra office.