Guernsey Bass Management Meeting

[stavey]

hi stavey

 

Before the we joined the common market the french had to stay over their half of the channel, and we had to do likewise. Under the treaty that gave free access to all member states to fishery resources, all member states can fish up to another countries six mile limit

 

So it was all ted heath's fault realy?

[stavey]

Steve good, do you think fishermen like yourself would have less objection if this management plan was for another species instead of bass, say like mullet or smoothound? as these fish are not such a good return per kilo for you but they are just as valuable to us anglers.....

Edited January 16, 2006 by stavey

[steve good]

Steve good, do you think fishermen like yourself would have less objection if this management plan was for another species instead of bass, say like mullet or smoothound? as these fish are not such a good return per kilo for you but they are just as valuable to us anglers.....

 

hi stavey

 

I like your your question, a management plan for mullet and smoothounds, lets throw bream and tope in as well, like the bass plan will not make any differants whatsoever to the stocks. The fact is all these fish are being caught of the channel ilse by pair trawlers in large numbers during the winter. Why should we have a 2 tier management system that only effects english fishermen, thats the CFP and an English management plan. Do you think it fair that because the CFP has failed that english commercial fishermen should bear the brunt of the English Management Plan when it is being undermined by the forgien vessels fishing just outside the 6 mile limit?????

[Fastd]

hi stavey

 

I like your your question, a management plan for mullet and smoothounds, lets throw bream and tope in as well, like the bass plan will not make any differants whatsoever to the stocks. The fact is all these fish are being caught of the channel ilse by pair trawlers in large numbers during the winter. Why should we have a 2 tier management system that only effects english fishermen, thats the CFP and an English management plan. Do you think it fair that because the CFP has failed that english commercial fishermen should bear the brunt of the English Management Plan when it is being undermined by the forgien vessels fishing just outside the 6 mile limit?????

 

Hi Steve,

 

I read your reply with interest but you did not answer the original question so I will ask it again

 

Steve good, do you think fishermen like yourself would have less objection if this management plan was for another species instead of bass, say like mullet or smoothound? as these fish are not such a good return per kilo for you but they are just as valuable to us anglers.....

 

Do commercial fishermen have a gene that automatically objects to any fish conservation isssue or are they only intrested in species that are commercially viable. The BMP has been a very emotive subject and I wonder if future conservation proposals are going to fill as many forum posts as this one.

 

Dave

[Leon Roskilly]

Before the we joined the common market the french had to stay over their half of the channel, and we had to do likewise. Under the treaty that gave free access to all member states to fishery resources, all member states can fish up to another countries six mile limit

 

 

Not true Steve.

 

It's true that the principle of the CFP gives every nation equal access to all EU waters, but a derogation that is reviewed every 10 years exludes any nation from fishing within 12 miles of another country's shores.

 

Except where nations have a traditionally fished within another's 12 mile zone, before the CFP was established.

 

That right is sometimes limited to area, or access to certain species.

 

Who can fish where, and under what circumstances, within each nation's 12 mile zone is shown near the end of this document:

 

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat...1en00590080.pdf

 

 

When I was a lad, national waters tended out to only three miles, the distance to which a cannon ball could be fired from the shore! (see http://www.cambridge.org/resources/0521816...%20-%20ch.9.doc )

 

Beyond that you were in intenational waters and no longer subject to UK laws as a number of black and white films will testify where a criminal seeks to escape justice by moving across the line, still in sight of shore, as the authorities trick them into being caught just the wrong side of the line!

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited January 16, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[stavey]

hi stavey

 

I like your your question, a management plan for mullet and smoothounds, lets throw bream and tope in as well, like the bass plan will not make any differants whatsoever to the stocks. The fact is all these fish are being caught of the channel ilse by pair trawlers in large numbers during the winter. Why should we have a 2 tier management system that only effects english fishermen, thats the CFP and an English management plan. Do you think it fair that because the CFP has failed that english commercial fishermen should bear the brunt of the English Management Plan when it is being undermined by the forgien vessels fishing just outside the 6 mile limit?????

 

Ok steve it does seem like a double whammy as you put it if things go through? could you tell me steve what effects from the cfp are the most insufferable as a commercial bass fisherman? as i thought there was no quota on this species? now if you were talking about sole like wurzel has, i could understand your beef with the cfp but i dont quite see the connection with bass? but please enlighten me as i would like to know more about our inshore fishermens problems and who knows in the future we could even work together to solve some of them, cheers.

[Leon Roskilly]

hi jaffa/chris

 

The french tow at 3 to 3.5 knots and catch all sizes of bass, i have not got a cut off point i can do whatever the french do. You can catch bass towing for soles with a sole trawl at 2 knots. HP is not an issue 2 to 3 knots tide assisted and you can catch them. To catch large bass say 5 to 10 minute tow you need to go 3 knots plus.

 

 

I was interested to see this, taken from the minutes of one Sea Fisheries Committee, discussing the BMP

 

.... that some trawlers (9 of 12 local boats) towed too slowly to make big bass catches, but that 3/12 were powerful and used high lift nets to successfully target bass

[steve good]

Hi Steve,

 

I read your reply with interest but you did not answer the original question so I will ask it again

Do commercial fishermen have a gene that automatically objects to any fish conservation isssue/quote

or are they only intrested in species that are commercially viable. The BMP has been a very emotive subject and I wonder if future conservation proposals are going to fill as many forum posts as this one.

 

Dave

maybe it is the same gene anglers have, like wiping out cod, pollack ,ling,conger from the wrecks and then stand up and preach conservation with the BMP. Dr Pawson stated the BMP "is nothing to do with conservation but is about financial benefits for the govt" and "regardless of what the anglers say,stocks are increasing and we have a sustainable fishery in the uk". We are objecting because it is not needed, unworkable and unfair.

 

When the size limit went up from 10 inches to 36 cm we did not oject to that, it was for everyone and was workable. We objected when the EU done away with the size limit on turbot and brill and got it put back on. We got 2cm put on plaice from 25 to 27cm.Also increases in crab and lobsters. It your tunnel vision that thinks we have a gene that automatically objects every thing.

[Steve Coppolo]

Dr Pawson stated the BMP "is nothing to do with conservation but is about financial benefits for the govt" and "regardless of what the anglers say,stocks are increasing and we have a sustainable fishery in the uk". We are objecting because it is not needed, unworkable and unfair.

 

Hi Steve

 

How can someone as educated as Dr Pawson say that letting a fish spawn once before being caught is nothing to do with conservation? I can see what he was getting at though, the BMP is going to to benefit the government financially at some stage, as well as the 19,000 people who earn their living from recreational sea fishing, and the thousands more who will have the opportunity to do so if the BMP is implemented.

 

I haven't heard any anglers saying that bass stocks aren't increasing. What we are complaining about is the lack of bigger bass, like the ones we used to be able to catch. Did Dr Pawson say why it is that bass stocks are increasing? I'll give you a clue. It has nothing whatsoever to do with good fisheries management. Dr Pawson says that the fishery is sustainable, well I suppose that depends on what you class as the fishery. Does he mean commercial fishery, or just fishery? If he means commercial fishery, ie commercial fishermen can catch as many bass as they like at present, then I suppose he's right. I he means fishery as in fish stocks, then he'd be very foolish indeed to predict that it will last forever as it is. The number of large mature bass, the ones who put most eggs back into the fishery, (fish stocks), are getting less and less. The juveniles are getting caught by the thousands of tons before they get a chance to put any eggs back into the fishery.

 

What would you rather see Steve, sensible management now and sustainable bass fishing forever? Or things to stay the same, bass to become pressure stock and the ridiculous quota system put in action? If bass were to become a pressure stock, who do you think would get most of the quota?

[steve good]

hi steve

 

You have ask or answered 5 times in bold written i will answer them as 1to 5 only i am on the other page and have to keep going back to read it.

 

1 Yes you can catch alot of bass when sole trawling.

 

2 My words were "I dare say" that may be the case, there are some people that do things like in all walks of life.

 

3 Vermin is a poor choice of words lets say nuisance, thing is if they can not be landed and some one wants to do another tow they will not want to catch them again it will be double the work for nothing.

 

Fisherman as you say have lost favour with the public they have gone green thats the reason. Might be anglers next it is a blood sport same as fox hunter. We do not expect support from anyone never had any never will

 

Have to go been on the phone for hours finnish this off tomorrow.

 

smiles steve