Compromise

[Jaffa]

why do i dislike commercial people.

 

controlled by GPS so they fish 15 days a month... easy just disconnect it then work all month.

 

when Sunday was banned just ignore it!

 

trawl so far up the beach get stuck as the tide has receded further than you think.

 

land your full quota of fish. then be seen back at a small harbour loading fish into unmarked vans! sell direct to hotels for cash only!

 

worst of all. haul in 1000's of codling(& other species) 1-2lbs and dump them a few hours later because you have heard the market price has bottomed out. then go and target more codling hoping to get bigger ones where the price is better.

 

Sorry Dan, but IMO that comes across as a lazy caricature and shows your lack of knowledge about the fishing industry.

 

Your GPS comments. Where on earth does that come from?

 

when sunday was banned just ignore it!

What's that about? An issue in your local area? First time I've heard that one, though I often wish my local fishers had never abandoned their mores of never fishing the weekends or festive period.

 

The reasons they did are complex and mainly to do with changes in politics and society as a whole. Quotas were introduced about the same time those local mores broke down, and that to a large extent drove the process even faster. That's a huge increase in fishing effort a just the time the scientists are saying to reduce it.

 

Im old enough to remember the first Scots "inshore" boat to fish the festive period; The Wick boat "Boy Andrew" . £45,000 they made if i remember right (a fantastic sum for an inshore boat back then), but the supermarkets need fed as our whole society switched to 7 day 24/7 living. Needless to say loads more boats did it the next year. Boats also started working a crew and a half so they could keep the boat at sea as much time as possible. All this against a background of quotas. What a madhouse.

 

trawl so far up the beach get stuck as the tide has receded further than you think.

 

land your full quota of fish. then be seen back at a small harbour loading fish into unmarked vans! sell direct to hotels for cash only!

 

We don't have boats doing that up here. I can imagine a really small trawler down south fishing tight inshore, i can imagine a wee boat flogging fish on the side for cash. Where you lose me is with then saying

 

worst of all. haul in 1000's of codling(& other species) 1-2lbs and dump them a few hours later because you have heard the market price has bottomed out. then go and target more codling hoping to get bigger ones where the price is better.

 

I doubt the same boats you speak about would know what a 1000 codling look like. For the bigger boats up north, i can imagine your scenario, of dumping small to maximise return on quota, happening now and again. More commonplace it would seem to me, would be the routine dumping of any species because that boat does not have quotas for it

 

Not a personal knock at you Dan, but you have no idea how stupid your comments must look to the likes of Binatone. Imagine an anti doing an attack job on angling ; drawing together snippets of bad stuff he's heard about angling, combining it all into a few paragraphs, then saying something like you did there. The stillwater trout fisher, NE rock angler, SW bass guy, would all no doubt get upset by being tarred with the same inaccurate brush...

[JB]

John,

 

As an RSA i support the pullout of the CFP, and we ( saveourbass.com) pretty much do too i think.

 

I think marine resources are too delicate for their management to be compromised by differing needs of differing countries.

 

I am fully in favour of europe as a Free Trade Area but each country should be able to put its own interests first in regard to certain things seen as in the National Interest - defence, law & order, and other stuff such as fisheries and farming.

 

In the same way that the EU should not decide how we defend our country, they should not manage our fisheries either.

 

In my opinion that was the major mistake of the EC - and it is one that will become exacerbated as it expands, is that in the rush to promote economic growth through free trade and the movement of labour, the need of individual nations to protect their national interests was surrendered.

 

The UK realised it years ago, France and Germany now in deep economic recession are only just realising it, and are finding they built an EC which is not structured to help them out now they are in economic trouble.

 

I would say bugger Eastern Europe, and hold out for a renegotiation of CAP and the CFP in return for the rebate reduction that France and Germany need.

 

GB

 

 

Hi GB,

I agree with your comments. I am not sufficiently familiar with the situation you mentioned in your last paragraph, due to a lack of knowledge on my part. Recently, I haven’t been keeping up to date with EU current affairs. I find it depressing. All the UK seems to do is to lose out, every time.

 

If you look at the countries that have good RSA and commercial fishing coexisting and prospering together, they all have one thing in common: they look after their fish stocks as a national interest.

 

Commercial fishermen made a big push to withdraw from the CFP 20 years ago. Unfortunately they were ignored. So much for the political clout the commercials are reputed to have!

 

Personally, the changes that have come about in recent years have affected me very little, so far. Consequently, I have no personal agenda. However, given correct management the job could be put back on its feet, and that would please me immensely – and benefit us all. Unfortunately, correct management is what we are sadly lacking.

 

John

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

Thanks for holding me up as an example John. Not sure I can live up to that for you though. Your partner is employed in something to do with law John isnt she??? Perhaps you should ask her about the rehabillitation of offenders act. I dont think your instantly rehabillitated and you certainly aint forgiven overnight if ever by the people you effect.

 

Your point is a difficult one to answer. Im sat here thinking would I do the same things again if the law wasnt there to stop me. My answer probably not. My conscience was effected in such a way it now pulls me up if I think of deviating. Would The commercial fishermen do the same again if enforcement was dropped???? Most probably yes. The ones I feel sorry for are the ones who want to do things by the book but are up against it because of the actions of the others, and those who throw thier books in the river.

 

Dale dont talk to the wall, Ive banged me head against the same one for quite sometime now and believe me you dont ever get any sense from it, lots of words but certainly no logical sense. Come talk to me instead m8, I see your point and totally agree. The dumping of small fish is one thing gets my back up too. Perhaps we do have hope of an alliance on that one as a lot of the local fleet here recognise it happens and needs stopping. I here they asked for compensation to stop fishing when the small stuff is abundent. I heared they were turned down which is silly.

Edited December 3, 2005 by Feels like Winter to me

[JB]

Which countries do you have in mind?

 

Hi FishingsFine,

 

The ones that spring to mind are Iceland and Norway, which I can not speak of from personal experience. Also, the west coast of Canada (British Columbia) and New Zealand - I have a little experience of angling and commercial fishing in both of these countries.

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

John Im wondering what people think about this get out of the cfp thing. Do you know how to use the poll facility?

[Ryford]

You can take the get out of the CFP argument in different ways.

 

You could start by asking if we would have been better not in it in the first place. This then opens up things where could start by asking what alternative plans were there at the time, were they or would they have been better than the cfp, and perhaps most important of all, would Westminster and Defra, or Maff as it was, do a better job of delivering it. Certainly as regards enforcement, the UK does have control up to the six mile limit and most agree that it has hardly been what could becalled a success story. Of course the EFFRA committee we told that enforcement wast't a problem inshore. It will never look bad if you never arrest anybody! It could even be the case that things might actually have been worse for some. Is there for instance, a possibility that UK historical rights in other member states waters could be affected??

 

So what are the alternatives NOW if we decide to bail out tomorrow? Well for my money pretty much the same set of questions and I am far from encouraged that sea angling would be any better off in or out.

 

Sure, the goverment and Defra are starting to listen but on the ground, inshore fishery management, both the fish and the fishermen!! is still wholy dominated by commercial fishermen, ex commercial fishermen, councilers who are related to commercial fishermen and sea angling representatives, some of whom are also commercial fishermen.

 

That is where the real problem is for UK sea anglers generally. Inshore fishery managment, or rather lack of it, development of fin-fish stocks being practically non-existent, devoid of any coherant future plans to develop on a broad user basis and largely incapable of absorbing the views of others. Regardless of whether sea anglers get more seats round the table, the ASFC and individual SFCs are resulutely against even discussing with sea anglers even when a document like the BMP is published.

 

Of course, now that sea anglers have themselves produced a biologically, economically and legally sound development package for the first time ever in UK history, all the FN and other apologists can do is pick holes.

 

Wouldn't it be fun if a few economist anglers were to register around here? Or even a couple of fishery scientists or managers who have actually experienced an effective rsa driven fishery plan being delivered.

 

I've said it before, the BMP must be proving a real challenge for fishery scientists and managers. I'll bet BB has been having the "yes but minsister" routine for months now. Largely from proffesionals who can see everything they ever believed going up in smoke before their eyes.

 

andyR

[JB]

John Im wondering what people think about this get out of the cfp thing. Do you know how to use the poll facility?

 

Hi @FLWTM@,

I don’t think it really matters what people think, because in my opinion the government would never allow it.

 

Personally, I think that our government is only interested in our fish stocks as a bargaining tool. If they had been genuinely interested in our fish stocks, they would have done something positive to preserve them many years ago. Some countries who really value their fish stocks have been looking after them for the last 30 years.

 

It would be interesting to have other people’s views on this subject.

 

JB

[wurzel]

Hello Ryford

 

Quote

Of course, now that sea anglers have themselves produced a biologically, economically and legally sound development package for the first time ever in UK history, all the FN and other apologists can do is pick holes.

 

If it is possible to pick holes in the BMP then Perhaps it's not quite so sound.

 

Hello John

 

I am sure sacrifising our fishermen was part of the original EU deal.

 

Pulling out of the cfp would be good only if we got control over the waters out to 200miles or the medium line.

Then the next step would be to get rid of the present shower that are managing the fisheries, and start a fresh.

 

Quote

If they had been genuinely interested in our fish stocks, they would have done something positive to preserve them many years ago. Some countries who really value their fish stocks have been looking after them for the last 30 years.

 

I think you should change fish stocks to fishermen, I still don't think fish stocks are that bad, it's the fishermen that need protecting.

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

Would it be fair comment to say the Eu is more interested in fish stocks than our government then???

[JB]

Hello Wurzel,

Q. What is the most endangered species around our shores?

 

A. The commercial fisherman.

 

 

Hello @FLWTM@

Would it be fair comment to say the Eu is more interested in fish stocks than our government then???

 

Yes. But only for themselves, not for us – the EU is interested in the UK’s fish stocks so they can exploit them.

 

Good fishing to you both.

 

JB