BASS AND COD IN BEFORE OVER FISHING

[Leon Roskilly]

hi fishingsfine

 

UK waters only go out to the six mile where i fish there is NOT a bass to be caught now so where are they, one thing for sure, once they go out side the six miles here, there are dozens of french trawlers catching them maybe you wanna tell your mates at cefas that.

 

er, Just being pedantic Steve, but it's important to realise that a lot of people reading this don't have a good knowledge of fisheries legislation, and in believing and repeating that "UK waters only go out to the six mile" it only serves to cause confusion, and dismissal of any good points that they are trying to make, because 'they clearly have no real idea of what they are talking about'.

 

In fact 'UK waters' go out to 250 miles, or to the Median line where there is a closer state.

 

However all EU vessels are allowed to fish up to 12 miles of another EU nation's coast.

 

Between 6 and 12 miles, certain states have access to other states waters, usually with some restriction (eg species, place, time of year etc)

 

Who can fish up to 6 miles of who's coast, and in what circumstances, is given at the end of this document:

 

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat...1en00590080.pdf

 

 

Regarding other nation's vessels with historic fishing rights within the UK 6-12 mile limit, taking bass , I'm pretty sure that CEFAS already know that.

 

In fact I wrote to DEFRA on that issue to try and get a handle on how much bass is involved and they replied:

 

In answer to your queries on the impact of foreign vessels on bass stocks, I should explain that there is no limit on the number of vessels with historic rights of access to the 6 -12 mile zone; historic rights allow access to any vessel from the country concerned for the relevant species.

 

We do not hold records of landings by other member states vessels fishing within the 6-12 mile zone (and in any event there is no requirement to record landings to the level of detail which would identify activity within this area.).

 

We can only refer you to the landings for other member states as a whole for each ICES Division, which is contained in the attached ICES Advice on bass from 2004, in particular tables 4.4.15.a.3 to a.5 and which I attach.

 

So, they couldn't tell me how much, but clearly the fact that the French etc are taking bass within our 6-12 mile zone has been factored in, and the tagging evidence that CEFAS has been using to estimate that only 10% of 'our' bass are taken by the 'international fishery', includes those boats fishing up to 6 miles from our coasts.

Edited January 25, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[wurzel]

Quote

Bass are tagged, to improve the science and assessments of fish stocks, which is a help for fisheries management but some fishermen choose deliberately NOT to bring the tags back to scientists (you wurzel?), because they fear that these tags will tell their secrets to other fishermen -which they do not! Being ill-informed should be taken as a valid excuse this time, but please deliver these tags from now on

 

See Attachment.

 

 

apology.doc

 

I still stand by what I said, I doubt the french skippers give the tags a second glance.

 

what was the percentage of tags returned over all ?

 

And if all these bass stay inside UK waters were the hell are they?

There are none here, Steve G says they ain't were he is.

 

Why did Dr MIke Pawson go for 36 cm and not 45 cm the first time round .? And it was not due to commercial pressure.

[wurzel]

Hello Steve

 

quote

I wonder where these experts were while the Cod were being fished into oblivion?

 

I thought the experts had changed thier minds, and warmer sea tempreatures were to blame fo the, (have they gone to ablivion then?) depletion of cod stocks.

[sam-cox]

Why did Dr MIke Pawson go for 36 cm and not 45 cm the first time round .? And it was not due to commercial pressure.

 

 

 

Could it be that he was being paid by DEFRA and DEFRA are the commercials friend.

[Steve Coppolo]

Hello Steve

 

quote

I wonder where these experts were while the Cod were being fished into oblivion?

 

I thought the experts had changed thier minds, and warmer sea tempreatures were to blame fo the, (have they gone to ablivion then?) depletion of cod stocks.

 

Hello Peter

 

Either way, they are mostly gone now. What we have now with the bass is like what we had in 1996 with the cod. An unusually large year class. Nothing was done to protect the 1996 cod. I wonder what could have been if the MLS for cod had been raised in 1997? So many more would have made it to spawn that the effects could have been enjoyed for a good few years. As it was, by the following year most had gone.

 

The 2005 year class of bass has taken a hammering, around 70% mortality I've heard, due to a cold snap last February. This years will almost certainly take a hammering due to the colder water temperatures. That leaves us with a few decent year classes. If they are hammered by commercial fishermen when they reach 36cm, when they are gone, that's it! There will still be bass of course, but it will be nothing like the numbers we have now. Another chance to have something good will have been wasted.

 

P.S. Roach, Dace and Gudgeon the other day!

Edited January 25, 2006 by Steve Coppolo

[wurzel]

Hello Steve

 

quote

 

So many more would have made it to spawn that the effects could have been enjoyed for a good few years. As it was, by the following year most had gone.

 

Well we worked on them useing 140mm nets for about 5 or 6 years.

just because they weren't within casting distance from the beach does not mean they were not alive , I would not be suprised if the odd 30 pounder we have been catching latley are from that year.

 

Quote

There will still be bass of course, but it will be nothing like the numbers we have now.

 

The French will make sure of that.

 

PS

Unless it rains I'm pike Fishing at the weekend.

[wurzel]

Hello Fishingsfine

 

Quote

So you don't see any bass within the six miles, but right outside the French scoop up tons of them. Hmm, maybe you should check your nets for damage.

 

Why? If Steve G can't find the fish and we don't know of any body that can in UK waters, we can safley assume they are all down in the SW aproaches bing caught by the French

[steve good]

er, Just being pedantic Steve, but it's important to realise that a lot of people reading this don't have a good knowledge of fisheries legislation, and in believing and repeating that "UK waters only go out to the six mile" it only serves to cause confusion, and dismissal of any good points that they are trying to make, because 'they clearly have no real idea of what they are talking about'.

 

In fact 'UK waters' go out to 250 miles, or to the Median line where there is a closer state.

 

However all EU vessels are allowed to fish up to 12 miles of another EU nation's coast.

 

Between 6 and 12 miles, certain states have access to other states waters, usually with some restriction (eg species, place, time of year etc)

 

Who can fish up to 6 miles of who's coast, and in what circumstances, is given at the end of this document:

 

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat...1en00590080.pdf

Regarding other nation's vessels with historic fishing rights within the UK 6-12 mile limit, taking bass , I'm pretty sure that CEFAS already know that.

 

In fact I wrote to DEFRA on that issue to try and get a handle on how much bass is involved and they replied:

So, they couldn't tell me how much, but clearly the fact that the French etc are taking bass within our 6-12 mile zone has been factored in, and the tagging evidence that CEFAS has been using to estimate that only 10% of 'our' bass are taken by the 'international fishery', includes those boats fishing up to 6 miles from our coasts.

 

hi leon

In my area the french, dozens of them are allowed to fish up to the six mile, The bass have now moved out past the six mile for the winter, where the french can now catch them, which includes the 36 cm bass.Pawson has no idea what the french catch and what sizes they are outside the six mile. This very point could well undermine any benefit the increase in landing size may bring. To make a good management decision this information is needed.

[steve good]

Hello Steve

 

quote

I wonder where these experts were while the Cod were being fished into oblivion?

 

I thought the experts had changed thier minds, and warmer sea tempreatures were to blame fo the, (have they gone to ablivion then?) depletion of cod stocks.

 

hi peter

 

The cod question is a hard one, where did they go. I think there are three reasons that saw there demise. Pair trawling and seining and combined with industery fishing for sandeels which took thousnds of tons of cod only inches long are to blame. More recently climate change has moved them further north. I think the basss are on the move to the north also.

 

regards steve

[steve good]

So you don't see any bass within the six miles, but right outside the French scoop up tons of them. Hmm, maybe you should check your nets for damage.

 

hi fishingsfine

 

the bass have moved offshore for the winter, going to try and find where they are.