The Origins of Life

[geffaz]

I beleive mars was once an inhabital planet much like earth!

things ar going t*ts up so they get the top boy/ pilot and make a huge space ship called ARK!

that contains all the dna of every species on the planet or atleast the ability to make it!

armed with a massive war head it zaps the earth BOOOM! to wipe out the big angry lizards!

hangs about for the dust to clear! and BINGO!

 

load of b***ocks but nice idea tho lol

bit like some trekkys idea of god !

[The Flying Tench]

This looks like being a very interesting thread - I would be particularly interested to hear how anyone can reconcile intelligent design with the hit or miss of evolution.

 

I'm really out of my depth on this one, but let me say a couple of things.

 

One of the arguments of the ID folk comes from the Big Bang. Apparently there had to be a balance between the nuclear explosive force that projected the matter outwards and the gravitational pull that stopped it zooming out into space. This had to be fine-tuned to an accuracy of one part in many billions of billions of billions. Hence the argument that there had to be some kind of intelligence behind the design of the start of the universe. But that is very different from saying that there has to be a God such as the Christians and Jews believe in.

 

I'm not sure there's anything unintelligent about designing a universe where there's wastage and 'hit or miss'. It was pretty effective, after all. Isn't the problem that it's unloving? And of course that's a problem for christians like me.

 

I frankly don't know the answer. As a 'theistic evolutionist', while I believe in Darwinianism to an extent, I also believe that God has had his hand on creation as it has evolved, so I don't believe the whole thing is chance. But it still leaves big questions, I realise. I'll wait and see if anyone else materialises to help with this one, and maybe also you'll fine tune your question. Then I might fling it at my twin who's a brain scientist in Switzerand (and a bible-basher like me) to see what he can come up with! Always assuming I can work out how to email this thread to him!

[geffaz]

I'm really out of my depth on this one, but let me say a couple of things.

 

One of the arguments of the ID folk comes from the Big Bang. Apparently there had to be a balance between the nuclear explosive force that projected the matter outwards and the gravitational pull that stopped it zooming out into space. This had to be fine-tuned to an accuracy of one part in many billions of billions of billions. Hence the argument that there had to be some kind of intelligence behind the design of the start of the universe. But that is very different from saying that there has to be a God such as the Christians and Jews believe in.

i have to say i thought it all was still zooming out into space? and the universe is expanding!

as for the billions of billions etc and the odds on this alchemy! what if its happend billions and billions etc times before! flip a coin enough times and it will land on its edge!

 

ive only vage knowledge of this so if im wrong go easy

[The Flying Tench]

do you want a 'darwin' car badge tenchy? (if i may be so bold as to call you tenchy!)

 

Thanks for the offer, but I don't think so! Not sure I've fully worked it out. Seems to be the Christian (ICTHUS) fish growing legs as in Darwinian theory. No great problem with that, but I'd have to keep explaining it to the flock! Mind you, I've a soft spot for Darwin as an individual. He remained a churchman, even a churchwarden, to the end of his life, but admittedly had serious doubts about his faith by the end. I've never read a biography, but the impression I have is that he was a very nice guy!

[The Flying Tench]

me and your dog both!

i never thought a man of the cloth could make me chuckle, but you did it tenchy

lol, as they say!

 

Incidently, am I right in thinking that, from TV programmes you've been involved with, you believe in ghosts? Does this mean you believe in some kind of spiritual realm?

[geffaz]

but alas very wrong! he worked out the animals evolved to create a vast amount of

variations! you have all seen the diagram that looks like a tree with the various versions

of say rodent etc!

he had us walking a single path ground based monkey,slightly taler monkey and eventualy homo erectus and then human! hence the rubbish of a missing link! that was with us right into the 80,s

we know obviously know ther is no such thing as we had varietys much the same way of the rodent tree!

that was his only down fall but have a feeling he new that and didnt want to go to far with the

narrow minded victorians!

 

but to this day he is still one of my heros! even named my dingie (when i was a kid) The BEAGLE FINCH

arfter the ship he got to the galapogos on. And noticed the finch to change thinking

forever!

sorry always wanted to be an explorer lol

[Tony U]

lol, as they say!

 

Incidently, am I right in thinking that, from TV programmes you've been involved with, you believe in ghosts? Does this mean you believe in some kind of spiritual realm?

 

John

Have you seen the critiques of his programmes recently? I think you are moving in to a whole new area of debate.

Also nothing to do with this thread how old is your Parish Church and is it worth visiting, as an interested sceptic?

Tony

Edited February 1, 2006 by Tony U

[The Flying Tench]

i have to say i thought it all was still zooming out into space? and the universe is expanding!

as for the billions of billions etc and the odds on this alchemy! what if its happend billions and billions etc times before! flip a coin enough times and it will land on its edge!

Yes, it's expanding, but my understanding is without the right ratio between the constants it would be far more extreme - I assume there'd only be gas.

 

As for flipping the coin, apparently one of the ideas that has been put forward is of billions of parallel universes, and ours is the one where it worked! Seems a bit contrived to me, but i read somewhere that it's one of the attempts at an explanation.

[geffaz]

duz a universe have to actualy be parallel to us to exist?

we can only see wot we can see, is it not possible that we ar but 1 if an

ifinate number of unverses! this one worked maybe the one next to us duz too!

maybe they all do? we could just be talking about distance

 

great quote by einstein on his death bed WE AR BUT A SUCCESFUL VIRUS

CLINGING TO A BALL OF DIRT IN THE ENDLESS NOTHING!

 

im no nihalist (sorry spelling is crap im dyslexic dont ya know lol) but

feel i should exercise every other angle before i turn my head up to the clouds!

 

i beleve in science but i am open to the other posibilitys of religion

as i like to edge my bets!

Buddhism is the only one that sounds ok to me as it welcomes science

and nature! and they dont want to bomb another religion off the planet for

having diffrent ideas! as cristianity, islam, judaism, have all done!

and have given hate in the name of love

and if ther is such a thing as spirituality then thats wer it would be!

[jeepster]

lol, as they say!

 

Incidently, am I right in thinking that, from TV programmes you've been involved with, you believe in ghosts? Does this mean you believe in some kind of spiritual realm?

 

of course i believe in ghosts... they make me a lot of money

 

for the record, no i don't believe in ghosts, and i struggle to believe in the idea of a spiritual realm

 

 

one thing working on the program has done for me though, is to question my lack of beliefs a little more. the medium on the show (david wells) is, as far as i can see, the exception that proves the rules regarding mediums, in that it would appear he can actually talk to and see dead people. it's the first time i've met someone in hi sline of work who i actually believe and trust. he's become a very good friend and we have many theological conversations, mostly begun by me saying, 'well it's all ****s isn't it' and he then giving me cogent arguements as to why he believes what he believes.

if i'd tried to have a conversation with any other medium i've worked with, (naming no names) they wouldn't have had the slightest interest in tell me what they believe, as to be honest, i doubt they believe much other than their own self worth, and are concerned only about the money they're bringing in