Mouth damage

[Jim Gibbinson]

I suspect that the main cause of mouth damage is simply due to repeat captures i.e., fish getting caught too often. Repeated injury (which is what a hook-hold is) will result in ulceration, and it that doesn't get a chance to heal it will result in erosion (producing the awful parrot-mouth look).

 

As others have said, lower-lip hookholds are less damaging than side-of-the-mouth hookholds.

 

I suspect the problem is exacerbated by long-shank hooks as they provide the potential for more side-to-side movement when the direction of pull is altered while a fish is being played.

 

I'm not sure where I stand on the barbed/barbless debate. Certainly barbless hooks are easier to remove, and probably cause less UNhooking damage, but how they compare with barbed hooks while a fish is being played, I'm uncertain.

 

A big benefit of barbless hooks, of course, is that there is more likelihood of a fish that breaks the line subsequently shedding the hook and with it the rig, trailing line etc.

 

In summary, the only way we'll stop causing mouth damage is to stop catching them.....

[Anderoo]

Agreed, I didn't start this thread to solve the problem, just see what people's opinions are. Newt, on a shallow and silty estate lake I fish the carp have very damaged mouths, and I've never actually seen anyone else catch a carp there (although they must do). So, it's unlikely that repeat captures are the problem there; it's lightly fished. Whenever I've caught a carp there though, I haven't damaged the mouths. So, it's not that their mouths are extraordinarily soft either. I just don't know!

 

I too, Jim, am undecided on the barbed/barbless issue. I use both as the situation dictates, but I do like the idea that a barbless hook is easy to shed if the worst happens.

 

I also dislike the fashion for very short hooklengths with very heavy leads - although this is just a personal opinion. I don't suggest they're not effective, but to have a heavy lead swinging about in a fish's face during the fight cannot be a good thing, surely.

 

Interesting views, thank you.

[Jim Gibbinson]

Like you, Andaroo, I don't like the short-hooklink/heavy-lead combination. And like you, I've wondered about the effect of a heavy lead in close proximity to a fish's face, especially its eyes. I'm amazed that prior to your reference, I've never seen mention of it. Brother Rick and I discussed the very subject a few weeks ago (following our watching of Korda's excellent 4 & 5 DVDs), wondering why there is widespread concern about line lifting scales from a carp's flank while it's being played, but no recognisiton of the risk of a heavy lead battering hell out of the fish's eyes.

 

Should be "recognition".

 

I'll write it out ten times!

[Alan Stubbs]

I appreciate the wisdom of this thread, but wonder if much mouth damage isn't caused by bullying carp when they're hooked.

 

Do you allow the fish to tire itself out, pressuring it when it's heading for snags, or do you try to land the fish with all possible haste?

 

I prefer to put as little pressure oin the fish as possible, but have a nagging fear that I'm wrong.

[gozzer]

Should be "recognition".

 

I'll write it out ten times!

 

Go on then!

 

I think one cf the main reasons has already been touched on, inexperience.

 

This problem has been with us for many years, especially on popular waters, with other species.

 

I'm afraid "instant" carp waters must take the blame. They seem to bring a "if it ain't big, it's not worth it" attitude to angling. The number of times I hear "I can only get them to 10-12lbs" and "a few"small" chub or barbel to 3 or 5 lbs respectively". We need to teach newcomers that all fish are worth it, and you learn more by gradually working your way up, than instant success.

Edited February 7, 2006 by gozzer

[Andrew Boyd]

I, along with many, am unsure about the barbed/barbed position.

 

From experence I lean towards barbless, not only from an unhooking point of view, but from what I have witnessed at a club lake, where the introduction of a barbless rule years ago saw a marked improvement in Carp's mouths. This lake is small and does not need to use of 3lb+ test curve broom handles which must be a factor.

 

Many renown anglers advise on barbed, as they say this reduces any twisting of the hook within the mouth parts. So take a 2 1/2 test curve rod, 10lb line, then say 50 yards between you and the fish, apply a decent pressure . . . your telling me that the barb ( yes that tiny bit of metal by the point ) is going to resist rotary movement! Can't see it myself.

 

I tend to think that there are anglers out there scared of the hook being thrown. Add a barb and you can play a fish badly and still bring it to the net. However, If you play the fish correctly this is never an issue.

Edited February 7, 2006 by Andrew Boyd

[WickerDave]

There was quite a long thread on this a while back http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=13505

 

One of my questions was...

 

Is there any single factor that is most likely to cause mouth damage to a fish, or is it a combination of lots of things?

 

- playing technique (bullying/overplaying)

- hook size, type (eyed/spade, barbed/barbless), pattern (normal/long shank), metal thickness (normal/carp strength)

- bait presentation, hair rigged or not

- hook link line type (mono/braid), thickness

- weight of lead

- rod test curve, action

- size of fish

- speed of fish

 

The answer is probably all of them to some extent, so I have to agree with Jim's "In summary, the only way we'll stop causing mouth damage is to stop catching them....."

Edited February 8, 2006 by WickerDave

[Bigminnow]

 

i agree with lilypad

 

 

BARBLESS HOOKS

[Anderoo]

I think Gozzer's right - the common factor must be inexperience, and I would think coupled with increasingly heavy gear and unrealistic expectations of very large fish. In reply to Alan's question, I tend not to bully fish, I take my time and let the rod do the work. This doesn't cause the fish problems with excessive exertion either; it's more a case of leading them in rather than pulling them in.

 

Jim, I'm glad someone else has wondered about this! As you say, a lead of any size banging around a carp's eyes is pretty dodgy, but a big lead must cause problems.

 

As for barbed/barbless, I'm mostly a barbless man and I have no problems. Maybe barbless do cause damage, but only when coupled with unbalanced tackle? I.e. the mouth takes the strain that should be taken by the rod? The barbed hooks I use are usually in the smaller sizes (10 and under).

 

This is getting interesting!

[merlino bill]

OI OI

im with lilly pad on this one, ive said it before & i'll say it again barbless hooks slide once they have been hooked, up & down the lip i ALWAY'S use micro barb & the problem for my fish has been eliminated,

try a MICROBARBED HOOK even if your not aloud barbed just try one for an hour or so.