Can commercial fishermen and sea anglers work together?

[Steve Coppolo]

Have you found any evidence as to the missing bass from the Stour and Orwell? it should have been full of 36 to 38 cm bass (Leons groth figures) this year.

 

Yes mate, they've all been gill netted.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Steve Coppolo

[wurzel]

Yes, they've all been gill netted.

 

Wheres the evidence, Whiskers has not bought a new Rolls-Royce has he?

[Steve Coppolo]

Wheres the evidence, Whiskers has not bought a new Rolls-Royce has he?

 

No, the ash try in his old one isn't full up yet.

[steve good]

I do believe some of what you and Wurzel say. I believe some of what Pawson says. But I don't believe everything I'm told. My own opinion is based on the bits that make sense, and from my own experiences.

 

I suppose the figure could be higher than 10%, let's face it, how does Pawson know how much 10% is when he doesn't know how many bass there are in the first place? I think the 10% was taken from tagged bass, and doesn't really give any indication of how many bass are in the sea. The figures he worked on to come to the conclusion that the bass fishery is sustainable came from one area, apparently, so those figures are only a snapshot of what's happeneing throughout the ocean. As I said, and as you and Wurzel both know, bass populations are very localised. If Pawson took his figures from one area, it doesn't mean it applies to everywhere else.

 

You're right Steve, I am selecting bits and pieces, but not to make a case at any cost. It's to try to make sense out of conflicting "evidence".

hi steve

very fair comment

i am begining to think the bass may not be sustainable

last year there were very few bass in the 36-45 cm size range, this year is the same, wuzel reports the same in his area, where are then? further north maybe

[steve good]

The Bass Management Plan suggests bag limits for anglers and non-licensed fishermen.

And it is likely that Phase 2 of the DEFRA proposals, following presentation of the BMP will include such bag limits for bass (The proposals for a Marine Bill include creating powers to enable the government to introduce such bag limits)

 

So clearly anglers are not 'trying to force the conservation thing so as it only affect commercials and not anglers'.

 

Why not check out your facts before displaying your lack of knowledge Steve? It's not that hard to do!

 

Has the problem been that fishermen have not even taken time to study the BMP, but have objected purely on the basis of what has been printed in Fishing News or spouted off down at the pub?

Oh! and whenever has the catching sector suggested limits on what it can catch so that catches in future years can be improved, rather than fiercely fighting any such proposals?

 

hi leon

bag limits should come with the mls going up

phase 2 wont happen nor the bag limits

i have read the bmp

Oh! and whenever has the catching sector suggested limits on what it can catch so that catches in future years can be improved, rather than fiercely fighting any such proposals?

 

quite a few times when the eu took the mls off of brill and turbot we got our sfc to put it back on, we also got 2cm on the mls for plaice maybe you should get check your facts now and then

 

we do not ask for quotas as they are counter-productive

 

 

regards steve

[sam-cox]

As I said before some people think substainable means one male bass and one female bass.

 

I normally catch thousands of small bass and a fair amount of over 36cm fish each year. This year I have only caught 30 bass, and I have only caught three fish over 36cm.

 

Its all to little MUCH TO LATE to my mind. This upsets me as my farther has been preaching bass concervation for over 30 years but nobody listened!

[Leon Roskilly]

i am begining to think the bass may not be sustainable

 

Bass, like several other species produce a huge amount of fry.

 

This means that relatively few spawners can produce the next generation.

 

And this is largely what has happened with bass, with the proportion of large fish in the spawning biomass being considerably reduced and although a 'recruitment fishery' bass is considered as sustainable.

 

However, in past decades, it was common for bass at the northern end of its range in the UK, to lose whole year groups in the estuary nurseries, with as few as one year in 10 producing a significantly viable spawning.

 

In recent years, with warmer winters, most year groups have grown on, leading to a profusion of school bass, most of which (at least those that stay inshore) are being 'trimmed' by inshore netting at the 36cm mls and few fish growing to spawning size.

 

If you are only interested in smaller fish, and the winters stay mild then the fishery can be described as 'sustainable'.

 

But it is a 'sustainable' fishery on a knife-edge.

 

It is calculated that as few as three bad winters in a row could once again lead to bass becoming a relative rarity in UK inshore waters.

 

(I haven't yet heard how this year's 0 group fared in what was a pretty cold winter this year)

 

And only recently it has been realised that 'trimming' a population at a small size actually promotes a genetic shift in the population towards smaller fish. Such a genetic change is permanent and can occur in as little as 4 or 5 generations.

 

Smaller fish carry less spawn, as do early spawners.

 

And the fry from the eggs of early spawners have a much lower survival rate than from veteren spawners.

 

All of which adds to the sharpness of the knif-edge on which our 'sustainable' bass population is balanced.

 

By raising the mls to above spawning size, not only will that ensure that many more fish spawn, which increases the genetic diversity within the stock, even if the number of fish surviving to adulthood is limited by other factors, but a 2lb fish has a far greater chance of becoming an 8lb fish than does a 1lb fish, meaning an increased number of veteran spawners in the stock (of a size that will delight anglers!).

 

So with a more natural age/size structure, and a greater genetic diversity the overall stock is subsequently much more robust, more able to adapt to changing environmental pressures, than a stock trimmed at 36cm.

 

But if we don't get these changes Steve, I very much share your concerns.

[Steve Coppolo]

If you are only interested in smaller fish, and the winters stay mild then the fishery can be described as 'sustainable'.

 

But it is a 'sustainable' fishery on a knife-edge.

 

It's not even that Leon. It's simply not sustainable. Don't forget that larger, breeding stock, bass are still being caught and those that don't get caught eventually die.

 

We WILL end up with a situation where there simply isn't enough spawning stock left to sustain the commercial fishery, unless we get the 45cm MLS.

[steve good]

It's not even that Leon. It's simply not sustainable. Don't forget that larger, breeding stock, bass are still being caught and those that don't get caught eventually die.

 

We WILL end up with a situation where there simply isn't enough spawning stock left to sustain the commercial fishery, unless we get the 45cm MLS.

 

Hi Steve

 

Could you and Leon tell me where the 36cm to 45 cm bass are, they did not turn up last summer or this summer in my area, Wuzel reports the same for his area, have they just grown up to quick or have the French scooped them all up over the winter, so where are then?

 

regards steve

[sam-cox]

They aint in the Theams Estuary in any sort of number, I have only caught three bass over 36cm this year. Whats more worrying to me is that the two, and three group fish are also very patchy. If you happen to stumble accross the small schoolies there are lots and this can give the impression that there are lots of them, but move 50 yards and the area could be barron.