September meeting with Defra?

[Ryford]

Even if the minute taker made a mistake and those weren't the exact words used by Richared Ferre, I can't see that catch and release was never mentioned in the sentence that may have been written down wrong. If the person taking the minutes had little idea of the subject, they would hardly have plucked the reference to catch and release out of thin air. They are just as unlikely to think of writing down a request for a definition of fish catching and whether it applied to catch and release, on their own initiative. This leads me to believe that Richard was seeking to find out whether C&R would be workable under any new legislation that we may be subject to. If this is the case, and I strongly suspect that it was, then this smacks of the same old appeasement tactics emplyed by the RSA lobby to date, that has lead us to the sorry mess we find ourselves in now.

 

In any case, Mike Smith, of Cefas, stated, (or was that yet another mistake?), that no scientist could quantify the percantage of fish that survived being caught and released and, in doing so, as good as told you that you can forget about using C&R to get you into MPA's and MCZ's,* as well as being allowed to fish once the cod quota has been used. If the people present didn't see that, then they really didn't ought to be sitting at the table discussing the future of sea angling.

 

 

 

*For as long as I can remember, Leon has been appeasing anglers whilst promoting MPA's by saying that they would be allowed to fish in them but it might be C&R only

 

I think you will find that Mr Smith was reminded that rod and line caught fish were preferred when used in conjunction with tagging surveys since the survival rate was as good as it could be. A comment that he agreed with by all accounts. Is that comment in the minutes?

 

Was the comment by one SW representative that he felt that the meeting lacked northern angler input recorded?

 

Maybe there has been a meeting with northern anglers already, I dunno. Maybe it was too far for them to travel for their sport where they would have to get up too early to catch the train, not to mention the cost of the fare.

 

Ryford

[barry luxton]

Afternoon Barry

 

At the moment, we are looking at the creation of no fishing areas, no bait digging areas, bag limits, quotas, fishery closures, restrictive and ridiculous codes of conduct, licencing, log books, compulsory insurance.......and that's just the ones we have had hints about. Who knows what else is being discussed behind closed doors?

 

I have made it very clear what my views are on these subjects - and the misrepresentation we have to tolerate. Letters have gone to MP's, MEP's and fisheries managers. The trouble is, you and I can say what we like in a letter, but it just takes one misguided individual sitting around the right table to undermine all of it. They have worked themselves into the positions they are in, they are the people telling the decision makers what we want, they are the people ignoring what grass roots sea anglers are saying and, therefore, they are the people who should take the flack when they get it so badly wrong. Which they have. Leon certainly doesn't represent me, just the same as Richard Ferre doesn't represent me. But they are telling the decision makers that they do and making plans on my behalf that I don't like. That gives me the right to criticise them. Leon can ignore me all he likes. To tell decision makers that he represents me, whilst ignoring every question I ask of him, demonstrates the scale of his arrogance - more than I ever could.

 

Your last point is interesting, Barry. You asked, if the AT takes off, the SACN would become irrelevant, so why keep on? Well, from what Leon has said, the SACN is already irrelevant. He says he wasn't at that meeting representing the SACN. The SACN wasn't being represented by anyone. So who was Leon representing on the day? We keep being told that the AT is the only game in town now. Having Richard Ferre in the driving seat is, to me, cause for concern. The prospect of Leon also representing me, and the rest of the UK's sea anglers, through the Angling Trust, just doesn't bear thinking about.

 

 

 

Afternoon, sorry for the interlude, had to pop upto london and back, no not to the defra offices neither.

 

So the short answer is carry on carrying on moaning about, one, now two reps Steve. It will only make you bitter and twisted. Better just to move on ain't it. Why don't you go and make your case to the decision makers then directly if you consider it to be of vital importance that you may have mis-represented. I don't feel very comfortable with Richard, yet i don't keep on about it. Although he has been with the nfsa for a long time he now really has to prove his metal with the AT or i will certainly agree something needs to be done, so i think it is the last chance saloon regarding that position.

 

You quoted me yet you choose to ignore the fact that i have already confirmed your first para reply with regards to the managers managing etc. Again i know that i have had the opportunity to make it quite clear to defra and co the detail within your first para by way of all the ru@@y consultations that have taken place. No doubt also the reps must have got the message, are you saying that you have evidence of the reps ignoring the fact that we don't want carparks and bogs then, new evidance to that effect, that is? Is that the reason to carry on with the constant rant. Don't tell me it's because you haven't been told of Leons current movements as that one had also been covered in my last post.

[Steve Coppolo]

Afternoon, sorry for the interlude, had to pop upto london and back, no not to the defra offices neither.

 

So the short answer is carry on carrying on moaning about, one, now two reps Steve. It will only make you bitter and twisted. Better just to move on ain't it. Why don't you go and make your case to the decision makers then directly if you consider it to be of vital importance that you may have mis-represented. I don't feel very comfortable with Richard, yet i don't keep on about it. Although he has been with the nfsa for a long time he now really has to prove his metal with the AT or i will certainly agree something needs to be done, so i think it is the last chance saloon regarding that position.

 

You quoted me yet you choose to ignore the fact that i have already confirmed your first para reply with regards to the managers managing etc. Again i know that i have had the opportunity to make it quite clear to defra and co the detail within your first para by way of all the ru@@y consultations that have taken place. No doubt also the reps must have got the message, are you saying that you have evidence of the reps ignoring the fact that we don't want carparks and bogs then, new evidance to that effect, that is? Is that the reason to carry on with the constant rant. Don't tell me it's because you haven't been told of Leons current movements as that one had also been covered in my last post.

 

I think we've got our wires crossed, Barry. I have made my case direct to the decision makers in the only way I, or anyone else, can. I've sent emails and letters, made the odd phone call. (I did try to do more once upon a time, but was prevented from doing so by the same people I moan about now.) But as I said, the decision makers could have 2,000 letters all opposing their plans for sea angling, but it only takes one misguided individual sitting around the right table to undermine the lot of them. That's what has happened with the RSA strategy. A public consultation resulted in the wholesale rejection by grass roots sea anglers, then it was just moved underground and pushed through by the same few arrogant individuals who are convinced that they know what's best for all of us. No, in fact it's worse than that. They don't believe they know what's best for all of us, they just know what they want and sod everyone else.

[Steve Coppolo]

I think you will find that Mr Smith was reminded that rod and line caught fish were preferred when used in conjunction with tagging surveys since the survival rate was as good as it could be. A comment that he agreed with by all accounts. Is that comment in the minutes?Was the comment by one SW representative that he felt that the meeting lacked northern angler input recorded?

 

Maybe there has been a meeting with northern anglers already, I dunno. Maybe it was too far for them to travel for their sport where they would have to get up too early to catch the train, not to mention the cost of the fare.

 

Ryford

 

I take it that the RSA lobby present on the day were very much trying to push the C&R argument, then?

[Steve Coppolo]

Would it come as a surprise to you to hear that another group of anglers has met the minister (and not just Defra officials) at a separate meeting to discuss article 47?

 

And that's the ony other one I have heard about. Inless of course you have heard differently.

 

One representative briefed their membership over a week ago so I hear, so there's no secrecy there I am pleased to say. It's my impression that RF did not say what he is being accused of.

 

Ryford

 

Good on him. Did he also ask the membership what they wanted him to say - and carry it out to the letter?

[Leon Roskilly]

I don't feel very comfortable with Richard, yet i don't keep on about it. Although he has been with the nfsa for a long time he now really has to prove his metal with the AT or i will certainly agree something needs to be done, so i think it is the last chance saloon regarding that position.

 

Barry, It's my understanding that Richard is standing down come September.

 

Maybe the hoped for messiah of RSA will be available to replace him.

 

So, who would the forum like to take over the role (and lets be practical here, not just wishful thinking).

 

Who has the skills, commitment, resources and availability to step into what is a Senior Executive position, negotiating at the highest level of Government, and often negotiating with well-trained people who aren't exactly the friends of angling. And who is willing to take on such a massive challenge simply for the love of angling?

 

(And please let us not list the people we don't want to see).

 

Or will it be the usual case of the person who isn't quite quick enough in stepping back, when a position has to be filled and a volunteer is called for?

[glennk]

Anything for a quiet life Barry ? would you even let them ruin your hobby just so you don't have to get involved in anything controversial. If you don't make it clear you aren't comfortable with Richard then everyone will assume you are and that is licence for him to do whatever he thinks is best.

 

One pleasant thing for me was to read that JL BASS actually asked about commercial discards. What a refreshing change that was. Well done to that man.

[Ryford]

I take it that the RSA lobby present on the day were very much trying to push the C&R argument, then?

 

Not that I am aware.

[barry luxton]

Barry, It's my understanding that Richard is standing down come September.

 

Maybe the hoped for messiah of RSA will be available to replace him.

I hope for the A T success it would be someone who is good enough to tell the likes of defra thanks but no thanks if it is not good enough for the rsa position. And for the likes of defra to sit up and take notice. Can someone be found i dunno. The nffo used to have sucessfull negotiators, now it is the scottish sector that have appeared to have taken over.

 

There was a couple of intances Glennk when Richard posted something on another internet site that i certainly disagreed with. A quiet life, you got that wrong, don't think so. At the time i certainly made it clear where i was coming from, but i don't keep on about it.

[Steve Coppolo]

Not strictly sticking to the rules about being practical, but if we must have someone to represent us, and if I could choose one person to represent sea anglers, it would be Wurzel.

 

No one I know, bar none, is a more passionate and dedicated angler- sea, coarse and game. No one I know, knows more about the workings of fisheries management. No one I know, knows more about the marine environment and fish stocks. No one I know, is more fair and level headed.

 

The trouble is, unless the meetings could be held offshore, out of sight of land, and you let him spend the rest of the day fishing, he wouldn't be interested. The executive pay package and pension might sway it, though, especially when you look at what commercial fisherman's options are right now. (after being driven into the ground by fisheries management).