September meeting with Defra?

[Steve Coppolo]

Steve, as far are forums are concerned, you make whining noises like my inter-axle split-torque limited slip differential .

 

 

 

Why don't YOU get off yer a*se rather than knock everyone else who has shown some interest in these pseudo-politics (in so much as that we cannot formulate and legislate).

 

I thought you to be a decent angler and 'rep' when you attended those meetings and sat on a SFC.

 

For various reasons upon which you pontificate, you left the stuff you could influence and end up in a backwater!

 

It's a shame, because you had a lot of experience and persona to have had a real contribution to make.

 

It seems to me you have spent two years knocking anything - BASS, SACN, and your dreaded 'reps' and only because you 'dropped out' of the mainstream.

 

Yes, I know you have your reasons for doing that, but you have lost credibility because of your negative feelings about ... well, everything.

 

Now when you ask US, yes, ALL OF US , to support a commercial fisherman as a representative of anglers who have seen and suffered because of them; then you have lost it seriously.

 

Sorry mate; but that's how it comes over.

 

Just do what the other 'hybrids' do and get on with your business ... your views are vastly unconstructive as far as the REAL recreational/hobbyists are concerned.

 

Have a nice holiday somewhere ...

and take Leon with you.

 

Have drink together and lighten up.

 

Be careful what you fish for ....

 

 

I'm sure I've said many times why I 'dropped out', Ada, but you keep ignoring the bits you don't want to accept. Those in the driving seat don't want anyone to make a contribution if it doesn't match their own ideals. You are right, I did have a contribution to make, but wasn't allowed to make it, where it counted, because I disagreed with one or two 'others'. And it's still going on. I was told that Leon tried, (and failed, thankfully), to prevent someone else with a valuable contribution to make from attending a meeting with Defra, Cefas, Martin Salter and the Minister, just a few months ago. Apparently, he "had no right" to attend the meeting! I know that this persons views are different from Leon's. The people I knock will allow others to do the donkey work for them, but when it comes to having a proper say in what goes on, they don't allow it.

 

So, please don't tell me, or anyone else, to get off our arses. It's inappropriate and is wearing a bit thin.

[John S]

.... is wearing a bit thin.

 

Two more things that are wearing a bit thin....

 

1/ This thread, and

 

2/ The constant sniping at Leon.

 

The latter will stop now

[Newt]

John - this topic seems to have moved to a basically stylized dance with the participants all knowing the steps and making their expected moved in time with the music and possibly a caller like you find conducting square dancing.

 

Everyone has assumed their usual position and danced in and out pretty much on que. Since it is all old hands in a ring-fenced section of the forum I'm not sure its really worth moderating unless it gets really out of hand.

[barry luxton]

I was hoping to see if this topic will last until this september what with the answer to the origional question, errr.........................un-answered, an all. happy days.

[Steve Coppolo]

Two more things that are wearing a bit thin....

 

1/ This thread, and

 

2/ The constant sniping at Leon.

 

The latter will stop now

 

1/ The thread is wearing thin because the questions aren't being answered.

 

2/ It isn't sniping, it's asking questions. And answering them.

 

Is this a forum, or not?

[H.A.]

1/ The thread is wearing thin because the questions aren't being answered.

2/ It isn't sniping, it's asking questions. And answering them.

 

Is this a forum, or not?

 

I wonder if it wouldn't be better if 'mods'/Newt, locked threads that are going nowhere.

 

Steve is a nice bloke, but for some reason is into 'Leon is to blame' stuff.

 

Wurzel, Steve's new mentor (?) is a commercial fisherman and knows lots, but not from my point of view.

 

Imagine me representing your angling views as a crabber/whelker (I was! But only as a teenager, honest!)!

 

Wurzel, I gather, is a licensed netter.

 

The so-called National dead Body - (my phrase from around 2001) for Sea Anglers no longer exists; although it takes a time for dead bodies to decompose.

 

What we (my mates and I) need now is to actually participate (not pontificate upon failings) and stop the silly individual squabbles.

 

Get behind the new life AT.

 

There is no vote for Steve or Wurzel; as there wasn't for Leon.

That is none of their faults.

There was no such facility.

 

But if they ran for some position in AT, Defra, NFFO (possibly?), then I'd examine their credentials and make my mind up.

 

What I wouldn't do is continue the worthless criticism that they were 'not fit for purpose' or similar, when/if they are not elected. There is/was no such facility.

These were dedicated individuals who were outspoken for their sea angling;

Steve and me included.

 

 

If it (AT) doesn't work , so what?

 

Councillors and new SFCs will what they do anyway because of ignorance of anglers' viewpoints.

If authorities ban us from this pier or that harbour wall (H&S ... it's for your safety , or that bait bed, then there has to be REPRESENTATION . Otherwise you have 280 000 folks who could use email; but don't!

 

If mistakes have been made when regulating bodies begin to consult or threaten us, the worst thing is the 'head in sand' stuff.

 

Yer all mad to go fishun' anyway!

 

[Elton]

Ada,

 

Just for the record, if we were to conduct an honest poll of UK anglers and ask how many times a year they go angling, I guarantee that Wurzel would be in the top 5%. Yes, he is a commercial fisherman, but spends a great deal of his spare time fishing from the beach and on freshwater rivers and probably knows more from "your point of view" than you realise. I'm not having a go at you for your posts, it's just that you seem to think all he does is drag nets around all day, 24/7.

[Sharkbyte]

Hi HA

 

Glad to see you stuck around, even if you do talk a load of old pony sometimes.

 

You're a decent angler, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised if you ever met Wurzel. I know I was.

 

Elton sprung the meet up on me when he announced that Peter would be joining us on a charter trip he had kindly laid on.

 

Given that I had called Peter just about everything under the sun, over the preceding few months (check the AN archives!!!), and we had done nothing but argue like cat and dog, I suddenly wasn't looking forward to the trip as much as I had thought.

 

Cut a long story short, few fish were caught but the banter was great! Peter and I don't agree on absolutely everything, but, by and large we sing from the same hymn sheet. Certainly when it comes to fisheries mismanagement and the pitfalls that await RSA. He hasn't been wrong yet....not once.

 

He is one of only a handful of people I jump at the chance of fishing with, freshwater and salt.

 

 

 

If mistakes have been made when regulating bodies begin to consult or threaten us, the worst thing is the 'head in sand' stuff.

 

Ignoring them would have been less dangerous than having a couple of lap dogs that roll over to have their belly's tickled every time the master summons them.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Sharkbyte

[Steve Coppolo]

Steve is a nice bloke, but for some reason is into 'Leon is to blame' stuff.

 

Thanks, Ada, you're a nice bloke, too.

 

I'm not into blaming people for making mistakes. We all make them. What I can't abide, though, is repeated mistakes with nothing learnt from them. The mistakes that have lead us to where we are now, are still being made. The level of arrogance that prevented our unelected mouth pieces from acting on any point of view that didn't match their own, or risked upsetting their political masters, is still very much in evidence today. That meeting that we both attended, (back in 2005?), was the only one I ever managed to get into. Attempts were made to prevent me from doing so. I was criticised after the meeting, by Leon, for "wasting an opportunity of getting Rodney Anderson onside". My crime, apparently, was to oppose bag limits, putting him on the spot, and asking a few awkward questions. I'm sure if I'd sucked up to him, or said nothing, I would have got another invite. There is a catologue of similar instances. Another that springs to mind is a meeting that was held local to me with the Environmant Agency, local SFC, local anglers and, I think (?), English Nature, where the RSA strategy was going to be discussed. I only found out about it after the meeting had already taken place. When I asked why, (being a local angler with a known interest), I wasn't invited, I was told it was because, a) I didn't represent anyone, and b ) because my views on the RSA strategy were negative. So, I can anly assume that the meeting wasn't really for local anglers, it was for unelected mouth pieces and those who were prepared to toe the party line. Hardly representative of local, grass roots, sea anglers.

 

As I said, this selectivity is still happening today and as recently as December, attempts were made to stop another knowledgable and dedictaed angler from attending a meeting in London. Only those who meet the criteria of the unchosen few, (i.e, the party faithful), are deemed fit to speak to the decision makers. This has got to stop. How can those in positions of power be expected to do anything of value to sea anglers if those anglers aren't allowed to speak to them? I attended a public meeting with Defra officials when they travelled the country speaking to grass roots anglers about the proposed RSA strategy. The Defra people there were visibly shocked by the views of the anglers and their hostility towards the strategy. It was a good demonstration of how out of touch our misrepresentatives are with the wishes of local anglers. Yet we are still being kept on the outside. Meetings come and go, no one knows what is being discussed, no one knows what is being decided, no one knows what the same few people are telling decision makers about what we want.

 

It's not a blame game, Ada, it's a highlighting excercise. If no questions are asked and fingers aren't pointed, these people will be free to carry on as before, unchallenged. I'm not prepared to sit back and let that happen. You can ask for censorship and try stifle free speach as much as you like, but if this thread is locked I'll just start another one. The only way to stop this, is for those in a position to, to start answering the questions.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Steve Coppolo

[H.A.]

it's just that you seem to think all he does is drag nets around all day

 

That's done it now.

 

It conjures up a certain type of bloke ... don't tell me he has a leetle 'tash as well!

 

 

Edited February 18, 2009 by H.A.