PIKERS' ANGER OVER STUDENT FISH KILL

[gozzer]

As the PAC pointed out, considering the chalk stream in question is a tributary of the Thames it it certain that pike will come back.

 

I don't like the fact that fishery students are doing this. These are supposed to be the future eyes and ears of our waterways. In the future I would hope that these students will be defending and protecting ALL species.

 

I don't like the phrase "it had to be had". Er, no it didn't. As has already been pointed out, there is ample evidence that such culls are futile.

 

As a PAC member, this kind of thing is why I pay my subscription. The PAC was set up to defend pike and fight outdated and ill-informed views of pike.

 

To be fair to the lad in question he does not sound like someone with a bloodlust for pike but using phrases like "was skinning out pike till 2am!" doesn't do him a lot of favours. I think this is where the "boasting" bit came from.

 

Would you rather see someone with a pitchfork taking the fish, Bingo?

The fact that it was students from the college, is surely a good thing?

They are gaining first hand experience of working in a real life situation, and could make sure that the fish were killed quickly and humanely.

The cull could be futile, but not if it's an ongoing thing that's performed say, every year or so.

To say that the lads statement of, " I was skinning out pike till 2 am", could be classed as boasting, is the same as saying anyone who puts a catch report or photo on the forum is 'boasting' about their prowess.

 

I think the PAC are doing themselves no favours by making such a big thing out of a case like this.

 

John.

[ndeezy]

I'm ambivalent to this and can't work out which side of the fence I'm sitting on. On one hand if the river was overpopulated with pike to the detriment of the trout then maybe something should be done - however would the larger pike not predate on the smaller ones rather than loads of jack be swimming around snapping up the trout fry.

 

What would our attitude be if we killed all the lions on the Serengeti because they were killing too many gazelle - uproar.

And why should trout be more important than pike - simple economics?

 

God forbid they start culling chub as well. And where do I go to start catching these chub?

[Grandma]

God forbid they start culling chub as well. And where do I go to start catching these chub?

 

The fishery managers suggested the chub were doing far more damage to trout stocks then the pike. The problem is that pike are being considered as vermin whereas 5 & 6lb chub are not and I guess that's why there's not a chub anglers equivalent of the PAC.

 

With the pike gone, there will be nothing to eat the 2lb chub and so there will be more big chub to eat the trout fry.

[gozzer]

The fishery managers suggested the chub were doing far more damage to trout stocks then the pike. The problem is that pike are being considered as vermin whereas 5 & 6lb chub are not and I guess that's why there's not a chub anglers equivalent of the PAC.

 

With the pike gone, there will be nothing to eat the 2lb chub and so there will be more big chub to eat the trout fry.

 

If my own personal experience of certain trout fisheries apply here, then the chub will be fished for (on fly), and then dispatched unceremoniously in the bushes, or fed to a cat.

They can provide 'sport' on bad days on the same tackle as trout.

 

John.

Edited November 6, 2007 by gozzer

[five bellies]

Ive a feeling its the Trout fishery that I am know longer a member of,

Since the old club seretary left a man with a passion for that river I feared some rather strange decisions would be made there is if I am right about the fishery in question only a number areas on this small river that would be Pike holding areas most of wich are over grown and unfisherble with a fly as wading is not alowed, The number of pike present would I have thought been in direct relation to the over stocking of reared brown trout providing food for them, The river does sustian a head of wildies and a fledgling stock of Greyling which should be in the six to eight inch range this season. The club used to have a chap who would have a spin through some of these pike holding areas every now and again and catch and release them further down stream, past the sluice that made the begining of the fishery.I have metioned before about certain members wanting to eradicate all course fish from this stretch of the river some not all!! Maybe they won the day on a under attended AGM

Flooding in the past has been responcible for blips in the pike numbers on the river maybe this was the case this year! I once saw a belting Koi swim past me there even more striking becase of the good water clarity.

[Dick Dastardly]

No fish is sacred and as such I have no problem with the necessary killing of any species.

 

However I very much doubt that this was "necessary" but purely just another example of the lack of scientific knowledge posessed by most "fishery management" at club level any way.My problem with the fisheries students (and the EA) for that matter is that instead of advising the "managers" correctly and educating them about such basics as natural balance they merely did what was asked of them.Be that right or wrong.

 

Dont ever think the EA are the "Guardians" of our waterways as they are not.They just do what ever they think will please the people who pay them.

 

Every chance that the only reason these fish were killed was simpley down to age old misconceptions and bigotry towards pike.The very thing the PAC has been trying to change since its inception.

[Steve Walker]

I expect the "lesson" for the students was one in the practical use of electrofishing equipment, rather than a theoretical one in the enlightened management of fisheries. Hopefully they have been taught the likely consequences of removing large pike. Electrofishing is particularly useful for this kind of thing, because it's highly size selective. The longer the fish from head to tail, the bigger the shock it gets.

[ColinW]

My first reaction was "It's their water, they can manage it how they like."

But then I thought, "I wonder what the reaction would be if next week they publish a similar photo of a family of dead otters?"

[Dunk Fairley]

Colin, that particular stretch of the Darent may be controlled by that particular club, but the club doesn't control the entire river. If you remove the pike from one stretch, the repercussions can have an effect on the eco-system of a whole river. The Darent has been in "flux" for many years. It's had a hard time since the 70s, but can now be an excellent place to fish the centrepin. Now these pike have been taken out, there may well be a population explosion of jacks, which could have an adverse effect on the shoals of coarse fish, the trout and the natural balance of the pike population, which could take years to recover. I will emphasise COULD though. I'm not anti-pike, I love 'em. I'm anti messing around with natural fish stocks in rivers!

 

I know of quite a few parts of the Darent (and Darenth), which are controlled by trout and fly clubs who do not fish the stretches at all but preserve them as Trout spawning sites. All through the year, these stretches are alive with big shoals of coarse fish, but coarse anglers are not allowed to fish for them, even though the trout are not there for most of the year. It's about time the Game clubs wised up.

 

Grandma, their is a group like the PAC for chub:

http://www.durhamanglers.co.uk/csg.html

 

Not quite as politically active, but they are group members of SAA, who would represent them on issues if the need arose.

 

For my part, a grumpy e-mail has gone off to Hadlow college, which is near to me, asking for an explanation.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Dunk Fairley