Dumping North Sea fish 'immoral'

[barry luxton]

'Unusually large number of fish born in 2005 are still in the north sea'.

 

 

Don't that tell you something? Still in the north sea, amaizing.

 

Are they not the future breeding stock. Or are these the one's the minister wants to target? Sustainable. Balanced. These are the words he is using.

 

Even today the scottish fish minister also jumped on the bandwaggon and has stated that there is a clear case for a substaintial increase in quota based on the encouraging scientific advise on the improved stock. Again he also states that he is concerned regarding the amount chucked back dead. Why are these guys being duped the most.

 

Have these guys got or are using a different lot of scientists, i wish they would point us in the right direction, until they do they are just bullshining. What other 'cod stocks' can they be talking about apart from the juvenile 2005 ones?

Edited November 22, 2007 by barry luxton

[wurzel]

'Unusually large number of fish born in 2005 are still in the north sea'.

Don't that tell you something? Still in the north sea, amaizing.

 

Are they not the future breeding stock. Or are these the one's the minister wants to target? Sustainable. Balanced. These are the words he is using.

 

Even today the scottish fish minister also jumped on the bandwaggon and has stated that there is a clear case for a substaintial increase in quota based on the encouraging scientific advise on the improved stock. Again he also states that he is concerned regarding the amount chucked back dead. Why are these guys being duped the most.

 

Have these guys got or are using a different lot of scientists, i wish they would point us in the right direction, until they do they are just bullshining. What other 'cod stocks' can they be talking about apart from the juvenile 2005 ones?

 

Hello Barry

 

The photos of good sized cod that Big Cod often puts up on the sea fishing forum are not one year old fish.

The large amounts of cod that anglers with JB and Challenge were catching off shore last year were not one year old fish.

The hauls of good sized cod seen on the TV series The Trawler men were not one year old fish.

The good catch of cod by the Lockers new trawler at Whitby were not all little one year old fish.

The good catches of good sized cod made by myself and the local boats in my area last spring were not one year old fish.

 

Fishermen have been questioning the validity of ICES science for years .

A 15 % increase in cod quota would not mean whole sale slaughter of all remaining cod stocks.

 

You are all getting confused with the issue of discards ( a polite way of saying you know bugger all about what you talking about) .there is a difference between discards of under sized fish and the dumping of by catch.

For example.

The trawler Fruitful Bough skipperd by James West might only have a discard rate of 5% of under sized fish, because he has acquired enough quota to cover his by catch of cod and other marketable fish he does not need to dump them, but there is no more cod quota available for him to lease or buy and the likely hood of him catching more cod due to an increase in the stock will mean that at some time in the future he will have to start dumping cod to stay with in the law, a 15% increase in quota shared out among the fleet would help stop this, it is not enough for boats like the Fruitful bough to exclusively target cod.

 

The video clip you are all getting in such a paddy about was meant to show the plight of the small under ten meter boats who can’t buy or lease quota and have to fish on the merge crumbs that DEFRA allocate them.

I agree it was not done very well, the skipper would have done better to have stuck to his normal prawn ground and been happy enough to show dumping his normal catch of a couple of boxes of white fish due to no quota . But to try and emphasize the point he obviously towed some hard ground, I would not be surprised if he was taken aback by the amount of codling he caught, perhaps a more experienced trawler skipper might help me out here, but I recon that if a small boat like that can catch that amount in one tow then there was one hell of a lot of fish on that piece of ground, its fish that is not generally being fished for and a small increase in quota would not change that.

 

My personal experience is that when I start sole fishing in the early spring my catch for the day will for example be 1 box of sole and 2 or 3 some times 3 or 4 of cod (I’m fishing an area not noted for cod) early in the season the price for the sole is high so I get days work out of it, as the season progresses and the temperature rises the cod get less and the soles increase until the catch of cod stops altogether some times replaced by a box or so of bass, then in the autumn it goes in reverse the soles decrease and the cod start to increase again the price on the sole increase so there is still a days work to be had, I don’t class my cod catch as a by catch more as part of the catch it has not showed much difference in amounts for the last 15 years, just that at the moment due to so called management I have to dump the cod. What’s the point? It has nothing what so ever with conservation, again a small increase in quota would not allow me to put the cod nets on but stop the need to dump good fish to stay legal.

No massive hauls, no raping or trying to catch the last fish in the sea like most in this industry just a steady living doing a job of work.

[H.A.]

The sun shines out of your botty, Wurzel!

 

Together with your words.

 

[barry luxton]

You are all getting confused with the issue of discards ( a polite way of saying you know bugger all about what you talking about) .there is a difference between discards of under sized fish and the dumping of by catch.

For example.

The trawler Fruitful Bough skipperd by James West might only have a discard rate of 5% of under sized fish, because he has acquired enough quota to cover his by catch of cod and other marketable fish he does not need to dump them, but there is no more cod quota available for him to lease or buy and the likely hood of him catching more cod due to an increase in the stock will mean that at some time in the future he will have to start dumping cod to stay with in the law, a 15% increase in quota shared out among the fleet would help stop this, it is not enough for boats like the Fruitful bough to exclusively target cod.

 

The video clip you are all getting in such a paddy about was meant to show the plight of the small under ten meter boats who can’t buy or lease quota and have to fish on the merge crumbs that DEFRA allocate them.

I agree it was not done very well, the skipper would have done better to have stuck to his normal prawn ground and been happy enough to show dumping his normal catch of a couple of boxes of white fish due to no quota . But to try and emphasize the point he obviously towed some hard ground, I would not be surprised if he was taken aback by the amount of codling he caught, perhaps a more experienced trawler skipper might help me out here, but I recon that if a small boat like that can catch that amount in one tow then there was one hell of a lot of fish on that piece of ground, its fish that is not generally being fished for and a small increase in quota would not change that.

 

Morning Wurzel, thanks for being polite, bugger all, i liked that. Could it be that he couldn't afford to buy any more quota at the commercial going rate, could this be due to the fact that buying and selling of quota is being priced out of the market by the big boys. in particular where he was fishing for prawn and he didn't need to land cod in any event. Challenge has also seen very little waste while fishing for prawn, was it luck.

 

Point being regarding the video clip that you have kindly agreed that it was indeed not very good, he was fishing for discard and the general public, the ministers are looking to base their judgement on this one video while ignoring every thing else. That can't be right, i know lot's of the rsa know bugger all, but being stupid is not included, while the James West experiance is being ignored. What about the net detail?

 

Regarding the cod stock it again appears to be a case where one minister can use science recorded to say yes the bass fishing is sustainable. That is not to say the main point of the rsa argument is more and bigger fish, he missed that one. Even within his speach in the latest adjurment debate it was glaringly obvious there was no argument put forward against his collegue Salter regarding that one little item. However when it comes to the cod stock, even the minister is dismissing that science and has said he has other to show different. Mind you he has not provided it for the public domain, perhaps we are stupid and don't need to know. So from your point of veiw Wurzel you are saying that the breeding stock has recoverd so back to normal fishing resumes. To me it is fishing on a knife edge as opposed to fishing on a safe, precausionary basis. I am of the opinion that you cannot do that with something that is of more value while we have it but could cause massive further misery for all when it's gone.

 

Come on H A please how about some constuctive comment, you can do it.

[wurzel]

Morning Wurzel, thanks for being polite, bugger all, i liked that. Could it be that he couldn't afford to buy any more quota at the commercial going rate, could this be due to the fact that buying and selling of quota is being priced out of the market by the big boys. in particular where he was fishing for prawn and he didn't need to land cod in any event. Challenge has also seen very little waste while fishing for prawn, was it luck.

 

Point being regarding the video clip that you have kindly agreed that it was indeed not very good, he was fishing for discard and the general public, the ministers are looking to base their judgement on this one video while ignoring every thing else. That can't be right, i know lot's of the rsa know bugger all, but being stupid is not included, while the James West experiance is being ignored. What about the net detail?

 

Regarding the cod stock it again appears to be a case where one minister can use science recorded to say yes the bass fishing is sustainable. That is not to say the main point of the rsa argument is more and bigger fish, he missed that one. Even within his speach in the latest adjurment debate it was glaringly obvious there was no argument put forward against his collegue Salter regarding that one little item. However when it comes to the cod stock, even the minister is dismissing that science and has said he has other to show different. Mind you he has not provided it for the public domain, perhaps we are stupid and don't need to know. So from your point of veiw Wurzel you are saying that the breeding stock has recoverd so back to normal fishing resumes. To me it is fishing on a knife edge as opposed to fishing on a safe, precausionary basis. I am of the opinion that you cannot do that with something that is of more value while we have it but could cause massive further misery for all when it's gone.

 

Come on H A please how about some constuctive comment, you can do it.

 

Morning Barry

 

There is no quota that I know of and what little there was available was to expensive.

Challenge might have been on a trip at a time when white fish were at a minimum, same if you came with me during the summer months.

I can't believe you think ministers are basing there claims on that one video.

James west's trawl with a 120mm square mesh panel will still catch cod just not the smallest grades under 40cm.

 

Where do I say cod breeding stock is back to normal, what ever that is? normal as in the 60 or 70's or perhaps normal was 20 or 30's when cod stocks in this area at least were less than they are now.

I do believe that ICES don't know the size of the breeding stock or even close to guessing the size of the breeding stock. I do believe the breeding stock is quite capable of large successful breeding years , 05's better year class is proof of that.

I keep on saying it but it don't seem to sink in Barry a 15% increase in cod quota won't lead to massive increase in cod fishing, certainly not enough to harm any so called cod recovery, it will only cover the amount of cod that will be caught whether they increase the quota or not a small increase only means it might not need to be dumped.

[H.A.]

Sorry Barry, I have no time for commercial fishermen and their sick sense of self-righteousness.

 

I've seen what they've done to UK fish stocks.

 

I've seen the indiscriminate methods used; the wholesale slaughter of 'baby fish'; the obscene 'discards'; the environmental damage done by nets and dredges and I'm sick to death of their 'squirming about' and apportioning blame elsewhere regarding EU regs and quotas.

 

Anglers, Governments, the general public and the media are thrown off course by loose arguments and lies propagated by greed and designed to make us believe that nothing untoward is happening around our coasts and beneath our seas.

 

Talking with protagonists (those who contribute to works of fiction) is like holding a conversation with Pinocchio!

 

Waste of breath.

 

[big_cod]

Morning Barry

 

There is no quota that I know of and what little there was available was to expensive.

Challenge might have been on a trip at a time when white fish were at a minimum, same if you came with me during the summer months.

I can't believe you think ministers are basing there claims on that one video.

James west's trawl with a 120mm square mesh panel will still catch cod just not the smallest grades under 40cm.

 

Where do I say cod breeding stock is back to normal, what ever that is? normal as in the 60 or 70's or perhaps normal was 20 or 30's when cod stocks in this area at least were less than they are now.

I do believe that ICES don't know the size of the breeding stock or even close to guessing the size of the breeding stock. I do believe the breeding stock is quite capable of large successful breeding years , 05's better year class is proof of that.

I keep on saying it but it don't seem to sink in Barry a 15% increase in cod quota won't lead to massive increase in cod fishing, certainly not enough to harm any so called cod recovery, it will only cover the amount of cod that will be caught whether they increase the quota or not a small increase only means it might not need to be dumped.

[/quote

 

An increse increase in quota means off with the prawn net and on with rockhopper trawl.

[barry luxton]

Morning Barry

 

There is no quota that I know of and what little there was available was to expensive.

Challenge might have been on a trip at a time when white fish were at a minimum, same if you came with me during the summer months.

I can't believe you think ministers are basing there claims on that one video.

James west's trawl with a 120mm square mesh panel will still catch cod just not the smallest grades under 40cm.

 

Where do I say cod breeding stock is back to normal, what ever that is? normal as in the 60 or 70's or perhaps normal was 20 or 30's when cod stocks in this area at least were less than they are now.

I do believe that ICES don't know the size of the breeding stock or even close to guessing the size of the breeding stock. I do believe the breeding stock is quite capable of large successful breeding years , 05's better year class is proof of that.

I keep on saying it but it don't seem to sink in Barry a 15% increase in cod quota won't lead to massive increase in cod fishing, certainly not enough to harm any so called cod recovery, it will only cover the amount of cod that will be caught whether they increase the quota or not a small increase only means it might not need to be dumped.

 

Hi Wurzel, too expensive quota, yes i agree on that. The minister stated on 20th November a quota increase was justified because the british prawn fisherman say they are catching a large amount of cod accidently and they have to be discarded. That was what the man stated. What other prawn fisherman did he get his information from. It certainly was not James West. He has also stated that his reason to go for an increase in quota was backed up by science. Is he reading a different science that you have discounted and i am looking at.

 

I agree you have not said the breeding stock is back to normal, sorry. The 'cod' shown in the video clip was not really what anyone could call cod, codling and juvenile maybe, is this what requires targeting, as opposed to dumping. This might well lead to an argument to close off hard ground areas to give them a chance to grow. I do understand you when you say an increase of 15% will not lead to a massive increase in cod fishing, as 15% of not a lot is not a lot obviously, again more argument to leave them there to grow?

[ColinW]

Could someone please explain to me what incentive there would be for a prawn fisherman to use gear which allows fish to escape if he is allowed to keep and sell those fish?

At least if he has to put them back dead he is not profiting from using unselective equipment. Personally I think they should have to bring all the fish back and then be fined for it, but obviously that is impossible to police.

[wurzel]

Sorry Barry, I have no time for commercial fishermen and their sick sense of self-righteousness.

 

I've seen what they've done to UK fish stocks.

 

I've seen the indiscriminate methods used; the wholesale slaughter of 'baby fish'; the obscene 'discards'; the environmental damage done by nets and dredges and I'm sick to death of their 'squirming about' and apportioning blame elsewhere regarding EU regs and quotas.

 

Anglers, Governments, the general public and the media are thrown off course by loose arguments and lies propagated by greed and designed to make us believe that nothing untoward is happening around our coasts and beneath our seas.

 

Talking with protagonists (those who contribute to works of fiction) is like holding a conversation with Pinocchio!

 

Waste of breath.

 

 

It would be nice if you could point out just where I have lied and how do you come to the conclusion that they are propagated by greed?