Monster Perch

[Leon Roskilly]

Maybe we are lmistakenly locating angling like an atheletic sport, where the feats of participants may be overruled by variables such as the use of illegal substances?

 

Anglers fishing international competitions are now subject to drug testing!

[Emma two]

Anglers fishing international competitions are now subject to drug testing!

 

Why do you think that that is?

[Steve Burke]

Someone mentioned 'poaching' in this case. Unless the law has been recently changed 'poaching' can only be applied when illegally taking a species (of fish, bird or animal) when is classifed as 'game', for example... Deer, Pheasant, salmon etc, and cannot be properly applied to catching a Perch without a rod licence.

 

Emma, I don't know what you mean by poaching but this is what I posted on a previous topic:

 

"In England and Wales it is illegal to take any fish from any stillwater not connected to a river without the express permission of the owner of the fishing rights. To do so is a criminal offence under the Theft Act. Indeed, even fishing such a stillwater without permission of the owner is considered theft as you'd be "stealing" his fishing rights.

 

River and canal fish are considered wild creatures and therefore don't belong to anyone. Thus they can't strictly speaking be stolen. Having said that you can still steal the owner's fishing rights and therefore be prosecuted under the Theft Act if you fish such waters without permission, whether you take any fish or not. However these laws don't apply to tidal rivers or the extremely few waters that are designated public fisheries. So on non-tidal rivers and canals, or on stillwaters connected to a river, it's still illegal to take any fish from any water without the express permission of the owner of the fishing rights, unless the venue is designated a public fishery.

 

Additionally, both the owner of the fishing rights and/or the Environment Agency may impose size or bag limits. As far as I'm aware there are no such national EA limits. However there are local limits, especially for game fish. In each case it is a criminal offence to break any of these regulations, and in the case of breaking the owner's rules it's again treated as theft.

 

One final point. Whether or not there's a sign saying the fishery is private is irrelevant. With the very rare exception all non-tidal waters in England and Wales are private.

 

For further details see the excellent book "Angler's Law in England and Wales" by R.I.Millichamp.""

[Jeffwill]

Emma, I don't know what you mean by poaching but this is what I posted on a previous topic:

 

"In England and Wales it is illegal to take any fish from any stillwater not connected to a river without the express permission of the owner of the fishing rights. To do so is a criminal offence under the Theft Act. Indeed, even fishing such a stillwater without permission of the owner is considered theft as you'd be "stealing" his fishing rights.

 

River and canal fish are considered wild creatures and therefore don't belong to anyone. Thus they can't strictly speaking be stolen. Having said that you can still steal the owner's fishing rights and therefore be prosecuted under the Theft Act if you fish such waters without permission, whether you take any fish or not. However these laws don't apply to tidal rivers or the extremely few waters that are designated public fisheries. So on non-tidal rivers and canals, or on stillwaters connected to a river, it's still illegal to take any fish from any water without the express permission of the owner of the fishing rights, unless the venue is designated a public fishery.

 

Additionally, both the owner of the fishing rights and/or the Environment Agency may impose size or bag limits. As far as I'm aware there are no such national EA limits. However there are local limits, especially for game fish. In each case it is a criminal offence to break any of these regulations, and in the case of breaking the owner's rules it's again treated as theft.

 

One final point. Whether or not there's a sign saying the fishery is private is irrelevant. With the very rare exception all non-tidal waters in England and Wales are private.

 

For further details see the excellent book "Angler's Law in England and Wales" by R.I.Millichamp.""

 

 

Thanks Steve, clearly explained and nicely put over.

[Dick Dastardly]

Just caught up with this thread.some great Perch.

 

Perch (well in my experience) are often miss weighed as well as miss "guess weighed"!.Mainly down to the fact that most weighing equipment is now more suitable for the bigger species.The weight of a sling "forgotton" to be subtracted doesnt make a great deal of difference with a thirty pound carp 60lb catfish or 20lb carp but with a species such as perch its an awfull lot! Also incidentaly why I prefer a handled carrier bag for the smaller species.

 

The subject of whether the new perch record should be accepted or not due to the suggested problems with its capture is a difficult one.Firstly I believe that records are purely an acurate indication of the size that species grow to as opposed to a reflection of the captors skill etc.As such the circumstances of capture are pretty irrelevant.However that said it could be argued that by allowing a fish caught under dubious circumstances we are simply encouraging/condoning such things!

 

For me though the paramount importance of any record is that the fish is genuine in both species and weight.Iknow of far to many records that are false be that by accident or intention.If things arnt done properly then the whole record thing is pointless.

[Emma two]

Emma, I don't know what you mean by poaching but this is what I posted on a previous topic:

 

"In England and Wales it is illegal to take any fish from any stillwater not connected to a river without the express permission of the owner of the fishing rights. To do so is a criminal offence under the Theft Act. Indeed, even fishing such a stillwater without permission of the owner is considered theft as you'd be "stealing" his fishing rights.

 

 

For further details see the excellent book "Angler's Law in England and Wales" by R.I.Millichamp.""

 

I accept that fishing without an EA licence is illegal , but it's not 'poaching'which is a different offence. (I used to work as an EA water bailiff, and would 'nick' people for having no licence, and would also 'nick' 'em for dragging a net through pools on our salmon rivers, both illegal, but both different offences.

[Dick Dastardly]

I used to work as an EA water bailiff,

 

Ah! then that explains why you have an incorrect knowledge of basic angling rules/law or bye laws!

 

And sadly Im not teasing or joking.

[Steve Burke]

Emma, as a fishery owner you can be assured that if I catch anyone fishing my waters without a permit I consider them poachers! Whether they're after coarse fish, game fish or game birds on my property they all get tarred with the same brush.

 

I believe in this case the angler has admitted to casting into the marina, and if this is a private fishery it's my understanding that it would be an offence under the Theft Act.

 

The question of then fishing without a rod licence would be a separate offence, as would illegally bringing in gudgeon from another water to use as livebait.

 

However, as a former EA bailiff I'll of course defer to your professional knowledge.

 

BTW, regulars on here will know that I'm a great supporter of the EA. Just about all the staff do a tremendous job in difficult circumstances, and with little or no job security in the present climate. I certainly don't envy them!

[Dick Dastardly]

BTW, regulars on here will know that I'm a great supporter of the EA.

 

And alternatively Emma most would know that I hold them in a very dim light! One of the very few things Steve and I dissagree on in fact!

 

Sadly though my opinion is (as it surely has to be?) based on what Ive both personaly seen and experienced.

 

 

So please dont take it as a personal attack/critisism.However I would sugest that you do check up on your facts before placing your proffesional reputation on the line!

[Emma two]

Ah! then that explains why you have an incorrect knowledge of basic angling rules/law or bye laws!

 

And sadly Im not teasing or joking.

 

poaching applies to the game laws, fishing for perch without a EA licence is not 'poaching', no matter how much and how long you may have used the term, in the same way as there is no such offence as 'rabbit poaching', another commonly mis-used term'.

 

if you belive that there is no difference in law between fishing without a licence and taking a double armour net through a salmon pool, then you would get a shock when appearing before the bench.

 

I am not putting any professional; reputation on the line, as I no longer working for the EA. As Steve points out the job became increasingly insecure, in our area partly due to the fact that we nailed the (real) 'poachers', significantly by hitting the outlets which were buying the poached salmon and sea trout, and cheap supermarket salmon made the business less attractive to poachers.

 

I don't see how anything I have said displays an 'incorrect knowledge of basic angling rules/ bye laws'?....We did often encouter angler who were misinformed and relied upon riperian myth, rather than the law.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Emma two